Pathological Liars
So you think you might be dating a pathological liar? No, you're not. He's just a big jerk.
The popular stereotype of a pathological liar-- a chronic liar, deceiver, who lies to get out of things, or into things; who tries to con you into something, or control you; who cheats on you and then denies it, makes up stories about where he was-- all this is wrong. It's malingering, but it isn't pathological lying. He's a tool, but he's not psychiatric.
"Pathological lying" is often interchanged with "pseudologia fantastica." (NB: many psychiatrists use pseudologia fantastica interchangably with confabulation-- this is also wrong, as will be described below.) Pathological lying was originally defined as complex lies which are internally consistent, that may drag on for years and-- and this is the key point-- do not have an obvious purpose or gain. They are not lies told to self-aggrandize, or minimize guilt. They're not trying to con you into or out of anything. They're just making crap up.
The lies are unplanned, spontaneous. Once told, they generally stick (for years)-- but it's fair to say the pathological liar doesn't know what he's going to say until he says it. He is a bullshit artist who makes it up as he goes along, and who then believes his own crap.
And the lies aren't even useful lies. You ask him what he did last Saturday and he tells you he went to the museum; and maybe he says at the museum he saw a guy try to rob the gift shop, but he got caught by two off duty cops wearing blue hats. And later you learn he was really at a movie with his girlfriend and you think, why the hell did this freak make all that up?
That's why it's called pathological.
A pathological liar is like a 4 year old kid, who tells you what happened to him down by the lake. Meanwhile, there's no lake.
The important question here is this: does the pathological liar know he is lying? Or does he believe his stories? Is he lying, or is he delusional?
The answer is: both. Sort of.
He is not delusional, but he hovers in that half-world of the narcissist (oh, there's that tie-in), where the lies are believed until he gets caught, but then-- and this is the move that only a few can pull off-- he acknowledges that the "facts" are lies, but not the essence, the spirit. "Ok, look, I'm not really in the CIA." But in his mind, he knows that if conditions were right-- if something big went down-- he could be exactly like a CIA agent, and that's close enough. If he saw a suicide bomber, he'd be able to movie- kung fu him, grab the Sig Sauer and squeeze off a few rounds. He also knows which wire to clip. How does he know? Because he's in the CIA.
If aliens actually did come and attack us, he knows he would actually be able to fly a spaceship.
Pathological lying is not "confabulation." In both cases, lies are told spontaneously and freely, without clear intent, purpose, or gain-- except that in confabulation, the reason the person lies is to fill in the deficits in his memory; he can't remember what actually happened. Hence confabulation is associated with dementia ("when I was 18 I went to Paris with my unit and I saw... 8 puppies get eaten by Chamberlain and de Gaulle-- hand to God I saw it"), and especially with alcoholic dementia/hallucinosis ("I don't know what happened to me-- six guys jumped me... yeah... six... Canadian guys, I think they were Satanists, no, wait, Stalinists, yeah, that's right, and they could read my mind...")
What about biological correlates? There aren't any, because this isn't a disease, it's a description. Here's an example: an article entitled, "Prefrontal white matter in pathological liars" found massively (20%+) increased prefrontal white matter, and a 40% decrease grey/white matter ratio in pathological liars, as compared to both controls and antisocials. But before you crack an anatomy book to figure out what that means (more prefrontal white matter= more ability to think and reason), you should know that the subjects they labeled "pathological liars" were really people who purposely and frequently lie to get a gain-- in other words, they were big fat evil scumbag liars, but not pathological liars. What this study found was that people who frequently lie develop a better brain for manipulating information, remembering stories, etc-- which is interesting, but not all that surprising.
My take is that pathological lying is a disorder of identity; the person imagines for himself an separate identity, and then fantasizes experiences and events which may be otherwise ordinary and predictable-- he went to the museum-- but in his mind happen only to "that" person. The lies hold the clues to that identity, but they may not be obvious. For example, maybe the part of the lie that's important isn't that he saw a guy rob the gift shop and get arrested, but that he was at the museum by himself-- the point is that he imagines himself a loner, or an artsy type, etc. Or maybe he's sees himself living in a world where crimes happen frequently. And maybe he thinks he's a superhero.
The pathological liar doesn't place much value in experience; it's all in identification. He doesn't need to be in the military to know exactly what it's like, because he's watched enough war movies (e.g. one) or read Tom Clancy. (Aside: that's the huge appeal of Clancy and Crichton-- enough detail to make you think you know the inner workings of the professions they describe.) It's wrong to dismiss the lies as valueless; like Zelig, these people do have an intuitive grasp of the relevant thought process, emotions, affects, and even consequences of the experiences they describe. They're just made up. So when he gets caught in his lie, he secretly blames the other person for not appreciating that whether it's a lie or not is trivial, irrelevant; it still affected him just the same.
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(It would be interesting to study whether (true) pathological liars are able to provide a better "profile" of criminals, heads of state, etc, than professional profilers, and what supplementary factors might improve the accuracy of the profile. ("Here are some videos/documents on Vladimir Putin. Tell us what you think. Then, go out to dinner with this beautiful blonde ex-FSB agent and see if you come up with any further insights.") I suspect also that pathological liars would more predictably pass the new fMRI lie detectors; these detect binary lies ("are you this or are you not this?") but pathological liars hold contradictory truths simultaneously and thus may not register as deceptive. (P.S. I think I know how the test procedure can be altered to pick this up; but I also think I know how these tests can be reliably beaten. If anyone wants to study this, let me know.))
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March 18, 2007 8:17 PM | Posted by : | Reply
LP wrote:
"...but pathological liars hold contradictory truths simultaneously and thus may not register as deceptive."
Question from an interested lay person:
Could pathological lying have any tie-ins to dissociation or to something that Orne termed 'trance logic'?
If I understand it correctly, trance logic occurs when someone functions as a child but uses a facade of adult level rationalization.
For an analogy, it would be like using a primitve, 1980s operating system to try and run MS Word.
Many revert to trance logic when under severe stress. Great ways to witness trance logic are those situations in which politicians and CEOs are caught with their pants down, or a religious leader crashes and burns in a drug and sex scandal and the hapless disciples insist that its actually enlightened teaching, not really a drug and sex mess.
March 18, 2007 11:42 PM | Posted by : | Reply
So, it's pathological if the lie serves no purpose? It's not pathological if it's to get something or to get out of trouble? I'm always surprised when it's someone successful who compulsively lies. I knew this doc who lied every time his lips were moving. He told me he was vegan, I guess he forgot he was vegan, because he sure enjoyed his 3 meat bbq plate. I thought that was a stupid thing to lie about. It might have made sense if I was vegan, but I'm not. I guess I was supposed to be impressed? Eveything had to be big and grandiose with him. Pathological liars also tend to brag a lot. E.g. "I have a hummer." Funny, but I never saw the hummer. Must have been in the shop 24 hours a day every day. I guess I just expect that people who are successful wouldn't be that insecure, sadly that's no guarantee.
April 7, 2007 1:12 PM | Posted by : | Reply
Don't expect the fMRI would not be able to detect various types of liars. Pathological liars use mental activity to lie and it can be detected. It may be different than the 'normal' person who lies or it may not be. In any event the mental activity will give the person away as research with the fMRI advances.
April 15, 2007 4:41 PM | Posted by : | Reply
My question is --what to do WITH a pathological liar?
You're at work, and a co-worker comes up and tells a crazy story about another co-worker, say.
Do you nod and smile? Confront him? Tell him "Stop lying. Everyone who works here knows you tell stories"?
Will confronting him make him make up MORE stories about you as revenge?
How does one deal?
April 15, 2007 4:45 PM | Posted by : | Reply
also, the biggest question I have re pathological liars is why don't they experience shame at the thought that, "This person knows I lie to make myself look more important."
Like, many lies that the pathological liar I know tells are self-aggrandizing. "I fought off a mugger. I played varsity hockey and was recruited heavily." etc etc.
Presumably this is a sign of a desire to impress people, right? Then if he cares so much what his listeners think, why isn't he embarassed to be caught lying to them?
May 2, 2007 10:00 PM | Posted by : | Reply
my friend...she tells me all this crap about how she gts raped...she has brain tumors...shes got pregnant and had "under-the-counter-abortions" without her parent's knowing.....(shes only 16 so that wouldnt work..) and she tells me NOT TO TELL ANYONE .. but she tells everyone herself...and yea. its SUPER annoying. and i think, she may actually believe all these things..how do i confront her?
May 9, 2007 1:32 PM | Posted by : | Reply
This is a very interesting article and like a previous comment, I am curious about 2 things.
1 - how do you deal with a pathological liar. My significant other and I have been dealing with a habitual and pathological liar for about 3 years now. the worse part is she is the custodial parent of their daughter. based on my experience with her, i believe that this disorder is DIRECTLY related to schizophrenia and/or multiple personality disorder. the scariest part - of course - is this person believes her own lies.
and 2 - how do you confront this type of person. right now my thoughts are that these types of people are beyond help, being that they believe their own lies.
anyone know of using pathological lies as support in family court?
May 14, 2007 7:19 AM | Posted by : | Reply
My mother was diagnosed as a pathalogical liar in the 1980's she left both myself and my half brother. Do you think its possible to recover from such an illness?
June 11, 2007 2:40 PM | Posted by : | Reply
My friend constantly lies about the stupidest things. It is unbelievably irritating and sometimes i just want to explode with anger. Usually i just don't say anything because i know if i do she'll lie herself out of it and then try and make me feel guilty and tell others who don't know she lies to turn them against me. On occasions i have confronted her when i have had full evidence but she never gives an explanation, she just says "I'm really going to be a different person, i really want to be good friends with you" but she never ever does. The types of lies she tells are things like "My eighty year old aunt is in hospital with a brain tumor and they don't know if she's going to be ok" She usually tells them after she has seen someone else getting attention for a similar reason. Her stories are always much worse though so that she will defintely get the most attention. She has all the traits of a person who is a pathological liar. I really don't know what to do about it and whether she'll grow out of it.
June 16, 2007 7:31 AM | Posted by : | Reply
From all I've read I don't feel so alone trying to deal with the liar in my life (my sister). She "embellishes" everything, even the simplest of matters. Most upsetting is when she looks to me for backup (I never back her up). Can a person be a pathological liar and just an "ordinary liar" at the same time? Is embellishing to the nth degree lying? I think it is. Well, I must say I am a bit confused. The most important question, to me, is how to deal with such a person. I surely don't want to be the victim of the latest fabrication.
Enjoying the posts... very helpful..
*pauleela*
June 23, 2007 9:40 PM | Posted by : | Reply
This was a great, insightful blog. I know a woman, 28, who constantly lies to me about where she lives. I know she lives at such and such an address, I often went there at her invitation, but a few months ago, she suddently told me she moved to another address and she told me the new address and when I went there, i found out that there is no such address. But she continues to tell me she lives at this new address and has moved from the old address, but i know for a fact that she still lives at the old address, my friends have seen her go into the building, and i have seen her go into the building, and so she continues to be this amazing pathological liar, even tells me i am her best friend, and she is very friendly and loving and romantic when we meet at other places, and on the phone, but she continues to insist she has moved and lives at a new address, when in fact she doesn't. so sad. Her background is this, at 17 she was trafficked to a new country from her native Malaysia to marry an older man, he was 47, and she had two kids by him in 4 years, both boys, and then he threw her out, after giving him the two male heirs he was after, to continue the family line and name, so out on the street, she went into the sex business and has worked there from 22 to 28, and my guess is she was sexually absued as a kid, marriage was also hell, her parents sold her to traffickers, and now, even though she makes good money, and bought an expensive car, without even having a drivers license, she lives in a kind of fantasy land with pathological lying, denials that don't make sense, appointments that are never met, sleeps at night with aid of roofies for 6 years and Stillnox too, so i imagine her brain has been scrambled. but what most interests me is how she insists she has moved and i know she has not moved. sad case. but your commentary sheds light on this very vexing issue of pathological lying. yes, she gains nothing from this action, she wants nothing from me, in fact, in every other way, she is a good friend, but this lying is so weird. AND she is very narcissitic too, always making videos of herself only playing around in her apartment with new clothes she buys.... so bipolar, drugged out, narccsy, p liar, premature birth as well, she told me, famililes, lovesless, abused all her life....and yet such a sweet woman when she is in a good mood.
June 23, 2007 9:45 PM | Posted by : | Reply
apu, i think you are right re:
''i believe that this disorder is DIRECTLY related to schizophrenia and/or multiple personality disorder. the scariest part - of course - is this person believes her own lies.''
i think pahtolocail liars are closely related to multiple personality via abuse cases..... it's their way to COPE, so have pity on them and don't get angry, try to understand it from their abuse case....
July 21, 2007 2:30 PM | Posted by : | Reply
My 77 year old father has chronically lied his whole life. Now that he is older, he has developed health care problems that also affect his health - it's ironic that he spent what should have been the best years of his life doing what he now does because he is a very ill man. Has anyone else had the experience of growing up with a parent who is a chronic liar?
July 23, 2007 10:27 AM | Posted by : | Reply
BOY THIS HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. IT REMINDS ME SO MUCH OF MYSELF. I LOVE LYING TO EVERYONE AROUND ME AND IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A MAN THAT I CAN GET SO MANY PEOPLE TO BELIEVE ME. I GET SYMPATHY AND EVERYTHING EVEN THE LOVE OF A GOOD WOMAN WHO HAS NO IDEA WHAT AN EVIL PERSON I AM.
July 29, 2007 6:07 PM | Posted by : | Reply
The most amazing pathological liar I ever met was this guy who had a house and my boyfriend and I needed a place to stay. The guy said he was a skipper on a ship and was leaving on job soon for idustrial fishing by Alaska. He said he needed a house sitter while he was gone. He left and I heard later he was roaming around town. Turns out that he was a squatter and didn't really even own the house he asked us to look after.
August 14, 2007 7:09 AM | Posted by : | Reply
I came here hoping to find answers only to find more questions. Currently, I have a 22 year old mother of 2 living with me. She is my daughter. She was not abused in this house, emotionally nor physically. We have two children, both raised in the same manner. The one has grown up to be "normal", but she seems absolutely bent upon running to things that get her into trouble and lies about it. She lies about her friends and work. She seems to have no ambition in life, but to hang out with people like her. Last night I caught her lying to me about being at work. I had the children and she was supposedly at work. I called her work place at closing time and was told that she never even showed her face last night. I confronted her and she still insisted that she did go there. I don't know what to do. She's still living here because she is the custodial parent of her two little girls and we're very concerned what she will expose them to in regard to her so-called friends and her chosen lifestyle. Any good advice anyone?
Thanks.
August 18, 2007 11:59 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I am a psychiatrist and have recently reviewed the literature on pathologic lying. I can find no evidence that people other than narcieesists, borderlines and antisocials do this.
Alone's response: do what-- lie? (Or be pathological liars?) I'm not sure, but the framing of your statement suggests to me that you see "borderline" and "antisocial" as fixed categories-- you are, or are not, borderline-- as opposed to a description of behavior and thought which is changeable given context.
August 29, 2007 8:32 AM | Posted by : | Reply
My boyfriend of a year has been lying to me almost the entire time. Everytime we got into an argument he would get a phone call from someone telling him that someone in his family died. Withink 8 months he had lost everyone, or so I thought. I finally figured out the truth and he is making up excuses as to why he lied. He said he did it to preserve our relationship. I think it goes deeper than that. He worked hard to make me think they were dead and to constantly gain my sympathy. He used it to gain financial support from me because I felt so sorry for him I wouldn't keep pressing him to get a job. Towards the end he turned violent. Now he is apologetic and wants me to assume a portion of the guilt for his behavior and make a plan for the relationship to work in the future. I think he might have a personality disorder that goes even deeper.....
August 30, 2007 11:52 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I recently learned that a man I really care for lied to me about some of the most fundamental details about himself and his life. He did it with such ease that I didn't even suspect anything for the first couple of months that I knew him. I gently confronted him with the contradictory information and he maintained that he was telling the truth. I couldn't believe it, because the facts were right there in black and white. I still care for this man (although certainly not like I did before), but I never trust anything he tells me anymore. I feel sorry for him because he obviously has some problems, but his behavior really hurt me.
August 31, 2007 6:48 AM | Posted by : | Reply
My EX girlfriend lied like this. Whenever anything would come up in our relationship where it was even suggested that she did something wrong she would reflexively lie about it, making up whatever excuse was necessary to get out of being responsible for her actions. Our relationship ended when she lied about where she was so she could see her ex boyfriend. I believed her at first and accidentally discovered her lie. She immediately made up a new story and just abandoned her original one. Each time I would point out all the holes in her story and then she would just modify it or change it all together if necessary. She thought nothing of just changing a story after it was pointed out that it couldn't be true. AFter all was said and done she went through 4 completely different versions of what happened, the final one being the most ridiculous. She would always try and turn the situation around on me and make me into the bad guy for exposing her lies, one time she told me that I betrayed her trust by checking up on her and 'letting her think that I trusted her.' This was after catching her in a lie. I won't even speak to her now.
August 31, 2007 1:25 PM | Posted by : | Reply
i think i am a pathological liar. i have no idea why i do it. my brother does it, my dad. for no reason at all. is there any way to stop?
Alone's response: yes. Decide to stop. Pathological liars fill the void of their identity with words. If the words stop, then the identity is uncovered and subjected to scrutiny. You have to be brave enough to withstand that scrutiny.
It's like a teenager, who hides in plain sight; who talks, dresses, acts in a manner he believes to be unique and independent, but which is so obviously common to everyone else in his group. It's all made up, but he feels it as genuine. What matters is that others see and judge the clothes, the words-- so they don't think to judge the person underneath.
September 17, 2007 8:49 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I HAVE BEEN SEEING THIS GUY I WAS REALLY EMOTIONALLY IN LOVE WITH ON AND OFF FOR 15 YRS. THE OFF TIMES WERE ME GETTING HURT BY HIS DECIET. WE WERE BROKE UP ONE TIME FOR 3 YRS. HE GOT ENGAGED SHE BROKE IT OFF(WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THE REAL REASON) HE SAID HER FRIENDS AT CHURCH THOUGHT IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA.HE ALWAYS CAME BACK INTO MY LIFE.MOSTLY TOGETHER FOR MONTHS THEN I WOULD FEEL THE DECIET AND WE WOULD BE OFF AGAIN. THIS LAST TIME HE WAS BACK FOR 4 1/2 YRS. AND IT WAS GREAT, FEW PROBLEMS. I WAS HIS "ONE TRUE LOVE" THEN HIS MOM DIED ,THEN MY BROTHER DIED THAT BROUGHT US EVEN CLOSER TOGETHER. WE HAD LONG TALKS ABOUT EVERYTHING AND WERE THERE FOR EACH OTHER.HE PROFESSED THAT THE YEARS OF DECIET WAS HISTORY AND IF IT TOOK A LIFE TIME TO PROVE IT HE WOULD.WE HAD THE BEST OF TIMES. DANCING...LAUGHING.. SITTING ON THE BEACH WATCHING THE SUN SET...SITTING UNDER THE STARS.. "HERES THE KICKER" HE GETS THIS JOB DELIVERING TRAILERS ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES FOR A BUNCH OF MONEY(RED FLAG)HE CALLS ME THO ALL DAY LONG AND ALWAYS TELLS ME GOOD NITE. ALWAYS TRYING TO PROVE TO ME HE IS AN HONORABLE MAN. WELL HE DIDNT TELL ME WHAT WAS IN THE TRAILERS. FBI POPS HIM AND F I N A L L Y I HERE FROM HIM A MONTH LATER.PROFESSING HIS LOVE. I WRITE BACK YOU "LIE LIE LIE". ALL THOSE PHONE CALLS I AM WORRIED ABOUT HIM AND HE IS DOING "WHAT"!!! HE GETS A GOOD LAWYER,GETS OUT AND LEAVES ME A MESSAGE THAT I WASNT THERE FOR HIM HE WAS INNOCENT! THAT HE LOVED ME SO MUCH AND I REALLY HURT HIM THAT MY LETTER TO HIM KILLED HIM. SAID "GOOD BYE" AND HUNG UP. HE HAS NO PHONE NOW AND I DONT KNOW WHERE HE IS.THIS IS "MY KICKER" I FEEL BAD THAT I WASNT THERE FOR HIM. AND I MISS HIS 50 TEXTS A DAY AND PHONE CALLS OF LOVE. "WHY DO I FEEL SO BAD AND ALL ALONE" ??????
October 1, 2007 11:14 PM | Posted by : | Reply
According to your definition, there is no doubt in my mind that I am a pathological liar. Every point you made matched me spot on. I've thought that I was for a very long time. I definitely lie less than I once did, but I still do it, as recently as last night even. My question for you is, do you recommend confronting the lies? Would revealing the truth to people I've lied to possibly help? These lies aren't particularly destructive, but they have gone on for years, and my only real concern is stopping more lies from happening.
Alone's response: I can't tell you what to do about your past. But I can tell you what to do for the future: just stop. And before anyone says, "that's easy for you to say" understand that the lying is not an organic compulsion, it is a learned response. When you stub your toe, do you say, "shit" reflexively? That's not genetic. Saying _something_ might be genetic, but not "shit." I know it feels reflexive, but you can now see it's a learned response. Lying= death. It invalidates your identity. Not even "bad" or immoral; nihilistic. It will likely panic one to try to interat with other people without this backup mode of interaction-- what they hell else will you say? But just as it "feels" more natural, in a sense, to lie-- like having a drink before a party conversation; you have to make it feel natural not to.
October 10, 2007 8:20 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I've only just been able to admit to myself that I am a pathological Lier. Sadly it has cost me my relationship and the woman I truly love. My advice to anyone who thinks they are a pathological Liar...just make a decision to stop and if you do tell a lie then admit it right away. Each day you are aware of and doing all you can to stop this awful learned behaviour and coping mechanism will move you towards a better future for you and all those around you. Start now before it becomes too late, it isn't worth the pain that may result...take it from one who lives with the pain.
Alone's response: I'm not making fun of you: but this comment could be an example of another lie, but not a pathological one. Here's an example: a person writes this here because he anticipates the type of woman who would be reading this post (e.g. one who has been in a relationship with one.) He thinks/hopes she will connect with thim because he represents something shehasn't been able to get in her own life (a repentant/self-aware liar who wants to move on), etc,etc. (Again, I'm not saying you are doing this, I'm just using your comment as a way of explaining the difference between a pathological liar and a narcissist (in this example.)
October 10, 2007 10:45 PM | Posted by : | Reply
Let me start by saying I am a Liar. We can label it whatever anyone likes but the fact remains that what people like me are. I am not writing to try and shed light on anything just maybe to help me deal. I have stood by for most of my life and whatch as I have destroyed relationships, jobs you name it my lieing has in some way played a role in its destruction. I dont pretend to know how to fix it I still lie to this day. I now have two childern and my relationship is strained because of my lies. I am now to a point in my life I am going too do one of two things either I am going to fix it or crawl into a hole so no one else is emotionaly affected any longer. I have tried to get help and the last shrink or doctor I spoke with about told me to just stop. Easier said than done I really dont think he understood the probelm. I do however think I have my own explanations for it. I grew up in a abusive home, was not the best looking kid or talented one in my class and was always made fun of. I have come to the conculsion that my lieing is to help me feel better about myself but how to curb it is another thing. I have a good job lots of friends who care about me and family that loves me but they dont deserve this from me does anyone know where I should start? Because I am mentally tapped out and about at the end of my rope..
Best Regards
Tom AKA ?????
November 14, 2007 10:16 PM | Posted by : | Reply
This is all well and good, but nothing has been said about how one should deal with a liar, pathological or otherwise. My 32-year-old younger sister is a dangerous liar and an opportunistic thief, and it is ruining her life and those of her children. She lies about ordinary things when the truth would work just as well, makes up stories about being seriously ill, and tells fantastic tales about the hardships she has endured, most of which were actually caused by poor choices.
She is irresponsible with money and always has an amazing "emergency" for which she needs to "borrow" money, which she never pays back. She will also steal pretty much anything if given the opportunity. She even stole our mother's antique rosary and pawned it. My mom saw it in the pawn shop window and had the choice to either buy it back herself or call the police. She chose to buy it back to avoid having her arrested. When she asked my sister about it, she said she needed money for food for her kids and was planning on buying the rosary back as soon as she could. Any of us would have given her money for food.
Confronting my sister just makes things worse - she gets belligerent, makes up even more lies, and twists things so that the confronter feels guilty about even bringing it up.
Sometimes she rants for long periods over relatively minor events that she has blown up in her mind. This behavior started when she was a teenager. She received counseling and medication on and off in her teens and twenties and walked out of a home for troubled young women (that my parents worked hard to get her into) after only a couple of weeks. When she starts getting help, she tells everyone all about how she is bravely dealing with her tragic life, but when the sympathy and interest wear off, or when the counselor sees that my sister is lying about everything and tries to cut the crap, she gets angry and stops her treatment.
It has reached the point where my father will have nothing more to do with her, my mother is tired of being manipulated and caught in the middle, and my siblings are fed up with the money issues. It's really depressing, because I still love my sister - she's bright, funny, hardworking, and would give me the shirt off her back (even if it was mine to begin with). I want the best for her and her children, and I would love to spend time with her, but I can't even have her over to my apartment because she steals so badly, and it's emotionally draining to hear her go on about how badly the rest of the family has treated her. She was not mistreated as a child growing up in our house, and we've tried our best to support her as an adult. There were four of us kids, and the other three of us turned out to be fairly well-adjusted adults. I know that my grandmother was a narcissistic liar as well, and my sister's personality and temperament are so similar to the way she was. Anyway...there's no doubt she has a problem, but how can we help her and still protect ourselves? I can't just throw her away.
November 15, 2007 12:50 AM | Posted by : | Reply
I mainly have a question. I've been married for 4 months, to a wonderful man whom I have a six month old with. He ALWAYS lied when we first met. Things like saying he was legally blind, whick he obviously isn't. I mean, totally random, stupid lies. Sometimes they were actually relevant to keeping himself out of trouble, but mostly just random. We fought endlessly about it. After a couple "I'm leaving" conversations, he seemed to stop. Since then He's only lied on a couple occasions, but everytime, it makes it so much harder to trust him. Today he lied about buying lunch. Money is tight in our home right now, but I knew he needed to eat, and wouldn't have been angry if he told me the truth. Is he honestly trying, or am I just putting myself and my son in a bad place?
November 24, 2007 5:40 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I have an x daughter in law who lies about everything she says she is bring my graddaughter for a visit and never shows up and never call to say why she didnt come or anything I get so mad at her and I think it is so rude for an adult to do something like that I am just shocked that anyone would do anyone like that.what should I do or say to her it breakes my heart that she plays games with the little girl.
November 27, 2007 3:04 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I have been friends for about 6 years now with someone that has revealed himself to have very serious lying problem. What is truly incredible is the depth of his lies, and how fantastically detailed and consistent they are, even year after year. In the latest round, he's been contacted by a big record company to go cut a record in Nashville. When the weekend came that he was supposed to go, his phone was off the entire time... I assumed he was in studio or whatever. On that Sunday, I reached him, and he told me he didn't go, because a friend he grew up with died in a tragic car accident and he was too distraght to actually leave. So now supposedly it's rescheduled for December sometime. (Holds breath) I could write for hours on how deep the rabbit hole goes here, but the bottom line is what do you do about someone like this? His lies are virtually harmless, always told to evoke sympathy or to generate positive feelings towards him. Fantastic things happen to him at every turn. He claims he has the best and worst luck of anyone you'll ever meet. (I told him if he actually was a successful recording artist, he'd soon die in a plane crash as an example.)
I choose to keep him in my life because he's a good person that has a problem, like most of us. I never take what he says at face value, and I expect most things he says to be a lie. When I catch him in one, I confront it... but nothing changes.
So to many of you that have posted what to do with someone like this... realize you can't change them, you can only decide how you want to include them in your life, or not at all. I think unless you're really equipped to deal with them on your own terms, its easier to not deal with it at all. Good luck everyone.
November 27, 2007 9:37 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I have a friend who constantly tells unnecessary lies. She has had a real tough past so i was wondering if this disease can develop over time? she lost her mother in a car accident and her father abandoned her when she was just a baby so she lives with her grandmother. In school she gets teased alot about her looks and what not. i was one of the only few people who chose to be kind to her. she took advantage of that she calls me all the time...almost as if she has no one else. obsessively calls me like 14 times a day literally. for some reason she feels like she needs to lie to gain attention and worth. like....she told me she was graduating last year and she never showed up or appeared on the graduation list...and she told me she would be walking the night before. umm she has also lied about doing things/going places..she'll make things up. like someone got sick in her family and doesn't know if they'll be ok....i don't KNOW whether or not to believe her. it sucks because i don't want to get involved in all this if its just going to turn around and stab me in the back but at the same time i know she needs help.
November 28, 2007 5:00 PM | Posted by : | Reply
Certain Pathological Liars are FUNNY as Hell! If you know of one or two, don't take them seriously, Have FUN with them Folks.
Depending on the personality traits and characteristics of a Pathological Liar (aside from being a PL), I find that a PL can be extremely FUNNY and Entertaining with his or her outrageous LIES and Stories.
Our Family has known a Pathological Liar, (through a Friend) for over 2 decades and everytime he comes over to visit, we have a ball with him, laughing off all his hysterical LIES he says about himself, his lifestyles and other People.
Here are some of the highlights of his Lying Career: (Note: The following Lies were dissaproved, discounted, and/or He never came through with his promises and claims)
-"I have a Super Nintendo Entertainment System, and I have 250 games/cartridges for it" (notice at that time, the SNS barely came out, and supposedly he already had 250 games for it (60/70 Dollars a Pop)...thats well over $12,000 invested into an SNES LOL)
-"I am going to Give You My (entire) PAY CHECK so that you can go out shopping for yourself" (never happened)
-"I am going to come out with a new (rap) album next month" (album never comes out, at least from the realm of his own mind lol)
-"You know I'm the type of guy that'll come over to hang out with you guys, and slap $800 on the table and we'll go out and spend" (never happened)
-"You know I'm the type of guy that'll come over to hang out with you guys, and throw down several thousand and we'll go out and spend" (never happened)
-"I am going to buy you an (expensive) Gold Chain so that you can wear it" (never happened)
-"I'm coming out with a new album next month" (album never comes out, at least from the realm of his own mind lol) Note:This is not a repeat/typo, he literally says this everytime we see him, every other month, every six months, every year, He's coming out with a new album, and we never see/heard of his First!
-"I'm an A&R for Epic Records" (sure you are)
-"My boy I know produces for Diddy"
-"I wrote the Don Cartegena Album for Fat Joe" (now he's apparently writing albums for high-profile rap stars)
-"I just got back from touring (concerts)" (Zero evidence to prove that)
-"I benched 5,000LBS" (now for shits and giggles, we just made up a number and asked him "How many times did you bench 5,000lbs ? 20 Times ? (((hold the laugs))) and he answered "Yea...20 Repetitions" (((laughs)))
-"I have a Car, My car is down the block, behind that Van, back there in the Corner, behind that Light Post" (when he left, we saw him walking out of our apt building, and he walked over the opposite way and caught a CAB lol) (no car whatsoever)
-"I had sex with Foxy Brown (rapstar) in a closet" (Mr. Don Juan himself)
-"I'm going to buy you a brand new pair of Jordans ($150 Sneakers)" (Never even got to try them on)
-(in the Mid 90s) "Ima hook you up with a Job, giving out Flyers to people in the streets, and they pay $750 a Week, $750 Dollars for giving out flyers" (never heard about that job offer again)
-"Some guy tried to rob our jewelry store one day by grabbing merchandise of the counter, so I(250some odd pounds) grabbed a bat, Jumped over the counter, and cracked a would-be theif on the head with the bat, who tried to rob the jewelery store where I worked at. He ended up getting stitches on his head and 7 years in Jail on top of that" (((Laughs)))
-(((Pathological Liar stands around our apt, Eating highly fatening Little Debbie cakes...and he notices us giggling and looking at his large ass belly fat...and he looks at us and says)))...
..."The Doctor told me im supposed to eat, to lose weight, you guys laugh but I'm suppose to eat a lot to lose weight" (Lots of Junk Food as a Diet for an already obese person ??? LOL)
There were just so many lies about himself, and/or about money, women, etc, that I cannot even remember most at this point.
What makes it even more funny is that he will look at you straight in the eyes and lie his ass off, wihout any apparent smirks, just serious, and think that we actually believe him.
Sometimes, when he is in the middle of another Lie...We will throw in a few numbers to see if he agrees with it and runs with it...for example...
Pathological Liar says:
"I make good money, I make about...I make about (((looks up to the ceiling and thinks))) I make about..."
and I'll interject: "What ? $3,000 a week ?"
Pathological Liar says: "Yea Yea, $3,000"
I'll respond: "A WEEK ?"
PL Says: "Yeah, a Week"
another example:
PL Says: "I bench press about...I bench press about...(((thinks)))"
I'll interject: "about 2,000LBS right ?"
PL Says: "Yeah Yea, 2,000LBS" (and we ran him up to "admitt" and claim that he benches 5,000LBS...TWENTY TIMES!)
Simply hilarious and entertaining.
and there are many many more stories/lies he has told us that were too much to cope with (we exploded in laughter while trying to hide it/cover our faces).
Watch out however, as I found out that this Pathological Liar can be extremely unstable in terms of temper control (mainly if you Call Him Out On His Lies...serious no-no).
This pathological Liar seems so wrapped up in his own Lies, in his own world, that if you question him or his lies, He will attack you verbally, or even attempt to physically attack you (if he hasnt taken his meds that day).
So when I say "Have Fun" with a PL, please have fun Safely...Ask them Questions, bait them into saying more hilarious and outrageous Lies, BUT, do not challenge them or question them. They can be illogical and hostile at times (depending on the PL's cerebral issues).
December 1, 2007 11:01 AM | Posted by : | Reply
My mother is married to a chronic and dangerous liar. He is my stepfather. He lies about everything! Seriously, everything. If my mom asks him to pick up peach ice cream from the store, he returns without it saying, they (the grocery store) didn't have any. Once we learned about this, we would always call the store in advance. The store would have just what she needed. Why does he do this to her? He's a sick puppy. His 1st wife died, was educated and independent. So is my mother. He has an inferior complex. Of course, no one knew until after the fact. All the uncertain mean-spirited baggage he held on to before has traveled with him in his new marriage. He lies so badly that he creates nonsense issues that make him look really stupid. Poor man-he always looks as if he is preparing a lie while eating or watching tv. What's wrong with people like that?
December 1, 2007 11:13 AM | Posted by : | Reply
I know a nice lady who is married to a man we all thought was nice, too. He's not; he's a liar. He wants people to think he knows a lot about everything, and he does read a paper frequently. But news is not what he lies about. If my husband tells him about an incident he has experienced, he comes uup with something, too. But guess what? We now know how to make up things to see where he goes with it. Well, he lies, or will ask about something that happened 50 years ago, that he barely knows himself, just to have the group thinking that he is the man with the news. His children know he is a liar. They usually look away when he stumbles through one. He does not stutter until he prepares his lies. He is a joke. Most of his friends don't want to be around him. But they have so much fun making him tell the lies, that they leave laughing out loud. The friends call him the Liar's Club Dunce.
December 1, 2007 11:17 AM | Posted by : | Reply
He is the liar of the town. I am sick and tired of Mr. B's lies. He lies just to LIE. Aren't people like this dangerous.
December 11, 2007 10:22 AM | Posted by : | Reply
Mahn i stole so mcuh stuff u kids dont even no. I got me sum cash, some pops, i got a chevy escalade, sum sweet 19" inch blades and sum 18" monitors for my sit. yall cant touch mah sweet intel Xeon processorz dog.
January 4, 2008 3:52 PM | Posted by : | Reply
Do you ever learn to trust a liar after being "burned" by them? I want to trust, I love her, but she's told so many outright lies, hurtful ones (like being abused and molested and having a rape test and police involved!) I just can't seem to get past these lies and believe ANYTHING she says ..... is there any hope for her or me??
January 16, 2008 8:01 AM | Posted by : | Reply
Very interesting. Makes me wonder where you get this from though. It's too "right" and detailed to be seen from far away. You must have experienced it in some way. Either that or you're a genius and a great judge of character, someone who probably needs to become the next Dr.Phil ;=)
Alone's response: let's all just agree that it's the latter...
January 28, 2008 3:40 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I want to first point out that pathological lies are behavioral, it is not a disease. The reasons for such behaviors vary from person to person, but the important thing is that YOU CAN STOP. You have to want to, but it's possible. I lied like crazy for nearly the first 21 years of my life. I started when I was really young, maybe 6 or 7 and didn't stop until last year. And the wild thing...., I just turned it off. I think I started doing it when I realized I didn't have to tell the truth about embarassing things. I grew up in a working to middle class neighborhood, and learned from an early age that (believe it or not) being a poor kid from a broken home didn't win any popularity contests. I started lying about what my parents did for a living. "My dad's a fireman", in reality by father was a drug addict and untreated diabetic that my mother left a few years earlier for fear of her life and her children's, and my step father (whomI was talking about) was a short order cook, a mean drunk and wife and child abuser. Then I lied to people about why I would have a black eye, etc. Soon after I was spinning fantastic tales about an association of mine with a spy or police agency (details varied), the problem was, I was seven years old. and the lies continued. Without going too long, just know that I BLEW IT, with just about every friend, every girlfriend, and caused them all tremendous alienation and possible some behavioral problems by mere association. Anyone who wants to talk about any of this, particularly those who have been abused, my URL and E-mail are listed.
- Christian LaBrecque
chrstn_labrecque@yahoo.com
February 3, 2008 7:56 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I worked very briefly for a small newspaper publisher who told me so many outrageous lies it was hard to count them all. They mostly centered around his experiences that were (amazingly) similar to mine. I think he sold ads by conning people, and some ads he ran weren't even authorized by the "advertisers". Sometimes, he had the audacity to try to collect on these! Anyway, I asked him if I could file a W-2 instead of being an independent contractor, and he gave me a blank index card and told me to fill it out. He asked me how many dependents I would claim. It was obvious he intended to leave me with the impression that I'd filled out a W-2, hoping I'd forget the details later. His scams and lies were so transparent, they were funny. I would laugh with my husband about them many times. This man had highly developed verbal skills, and he told me he had attended some kind of prep school in Connecticut. I think he was from a higher socioeconomic background, given the fact he owned a home in a nice area. His lying was probably quite a handicap for him, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if he lived off some kind of trust fund. Maybe he collected SSI. He didn't seem very functional.
March 10, 2008 12:44 PM | Posted by : | Reply
A girl in my class in school is lying about having a friend, who doesnt exsit. Me & fellow class mates all think she is a pathological liar, but we don't know how to deal with it. Does anyone know how? Shes only 14.
March 24, 2008 2:26 PM | Posted by : | Reply
iv just found out my friend whom iv known for nearly a decade, has been lying to her closest friends, me being one of them, for at least 7 years. everything i knew about her, her whole person, is a lie. suddenly i dont knw her at all. she made up a whole person, mixed up peoples lives with this person, stirred trouble between friendships, made up ridiculous stories, from the smallest of things to huge things like having cancer. only recently has she been caught out big time in one of her latest lies and has accepted the fact that shes a pathological liar. but the thing is, she's still lying to me even now. it's so hard to be here for her when i'm so hurt and pissed off at her lies, but she's making it even harder by contuing to lie even now.
is it treatable? what the hell do i do??
March 30, 2008 12:45 AM | Posted by : | Reply
I lie constantly, but I'm not sure if I'm a pathological liar. The reason I lie isn't just because it's a habit, it's because lying is fun. It's a challenge for me, and I enjoy it. Lying is hard; you have to show the correct emotion, and make sure the person you are lying to never catches you. The more times I lie without getting caught, the more fun it is for me to lie.
Is this also a symptom of a pathological liar? Or something else?
April 10, 2008 5:00 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I am a habitual liar. A horrible horrible person. Just recently, my lies have wrecked my entire friendship structure, destroyed my family's trust in me, and generally made me feel pretty damn sucidal. I keep on hurting those I love, and feel like I CAN'T STOP IT.
I am at a loss, and have looked here for help. I am tired of the effort it takes to maintain this whole structure of lie and counter lie, and it gains me nothing but heartache.
Help.
April 19, 2008 8:18 PM | Posted by : | Reply
WELLLLLLLLLLL I know this guy who pretends he uses toilet paper and goes into the bathroom just to poop and then wash it off in the shower. IT is really weird. he also showed us his appendix scar and said 50 cent shot him when he was 10 years old in Boston, yeah.. weird. he also pretends to get in a car accident every other week and then when hes done with that, his mom gets in car accidents. he got charged for rape and sexual harassment and then tried to lie to us to saying all this crap about his door being open, when we see it closed. he has about 5 girlfriends and a squirrel tail and gets caught with all of it and says they didnt see anything as the one girl watches the other girl make out with him.
April 22, 2008 7:44 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I think I am a pathological liar. I have no idea why I do it, to make myself more interesting? I have very low self esteem, I think. You see, the main trouble is that I can hardly tell when I am lying. I know what things happened and what didn't, but I have no idea how I FEEL about things. A while ago I sat in the mirror talking to myself, but every time I said anything I had to follow it up by asking myself if I was just making all the feelings up. I know it makes no sense, and it drives me crazy. My lies are usually about horrible things. Rape, abuse, sexual promiscuity, in the past I've made up entire people and pretended I dated them or was dating them at the time. I don't even know why I'm doing THIS. Typing this here, right now. Is it for attention? I don't know. And if it is, why do I want your attention so badly? I don't even know you. Is this supposed to impress you?
I think that for some reason I have always wanted there to be something wrong with me. I've wanted an eating disorder or an even more fucked up childhood, I want a psychological disorder, even one with a bad stigma attached to it. Why? I HAVE NO IDEA. I honestly don't know what is wrong with me that I would want there to be something wrong with me. Sometimes I think that maybe I am just a horrible person who deserves nothing. Deep down I must realize it fully and so I just desperately search for some scapegoat that can't possible be MY fault, I was BORN this way, my parents ABUSED me until I got this way, my brain isn't producing enough of X chemical, it certainly is not my fault.
But it is, isn't it?
And the worst part is, I can only say it here, because if anyone found out I would lose everything and everyone.
I've considered going to a psychiatrist, but I worry I will just lie to them, too. And of course I'd believe, happily, anything they said was wrong with me just as long as it wasn't my fault.
I think I want to stop but I worry that then I will really know what kind of person I am. I am afraid that someday I will kill myself. Actually, I'm not sure if I really worry about that or if I just want people to think I do because I'm this mysterious, troubled person. Everything about me is a lie and I wish I could start my whole life over.
May 5, 2008 11:40 PM | Posted by : | Reply
latoya. kick him out if he still lives there or run very very fast in the opposite direction and find a new home. this guy is a loser and will only bring you down. definitely the pathological liar...lying for his own personal gain and violent too??? no. he must go. you will end up getting a restraining order which he will violate and end up in court over and over til he gets a stiff enough penalty or your dead...whichever comes first.
May 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Posted by : | Reply
Up until I was in the seventh grade I had a serious problem with lying. Thank god someone at some point called me on my inconsistencies. I can still remember the moment, in the middle of a classroom(home-ec) on a bright sunny spring day.
I was not one of the popular kids. My father was overly strict and distrusted all of us kids. I thought my life was dull, so when my friends would talk about what was going on I just added my "stories" to theirs. When I got called on it, I realized that I had told so many lies to so many people, that I couldn't remember who I told what to and I was in a very uncomfortable spot. I wish I knew what made the light bulb go off for me at that moment and what led me to make the choice to try hard not to lie going forward.
I had no sense of who I was for a little while after I stopped lying. Luckily, I figured it out (it took a long time) and am so much happier. Here's the ironic thing...I now work with someone who tells incredible, fantastic stories, has been "caught" repeatedly by several people and still doesn't "get it". She truly still believes that people believe her, and I think on a certain level she believes her own stories.
Having been where I was as a teen, I see it as someone living in their head. I remember thinking about my stories after I told them. I didn't know what the story was going to be until it came out. Where the story went depended on how people responded. Later I would relive the story and how good I felt seeing peoples' responses and interest in my stories.
When I watch people at work with this person, no one confronts her. Everyone just goes along with her stories and even will ask questions as if it is a normal conversation. I had peripherally known this person for years and was not aware of her lying until I started to work with her. I felt like I had to try to "help" her, so I asked to talk to her one day and came clean about my past and steered the conversation towards a string of lies that she had told me and pointed this out to her. I guess I had hoped that she would be relieved to be able to fess up and know that someone understood, but instead I got another lie to explain the inconsistencies I had pointed out.
What made me that spring day in seventh grade, know that this was not how I wanted to live my life and make the commitment to not lying? What compelled her this day when I spoke to her to not even be able to recognize when someone was showing concern and being sincere to continue to feel the need to lie? It is very fascinating to me. It is also very frustrating. I am now 45 and she is 41 and I see what my life might have been. I am thankful every day that I interact with her that someone cared enough about me to face me about my lies and that I made the choice I did.
I guess I felt compelled to write this in the hope that just one person who is living the life of a pathologic liar recognize themself in it and make the same choice that I did over 30 years ago. I can see in this person that I work with how unhappy and sad my life would be if I had not been called on it and made a choice to stop. Also, just to say that if you are on the receiving end of an endless string of lies, don't play into it. Don't act like you are interested. Don't ask questions thinking that the person will realize that you know they are lying and change. It only reinforces the behavior and lets them tell more stories. If nothing else, ignor it, hard as it might be. The show needs an audience to continue. Don't be the audience.
May 22, 2008 1:21 AM | Posted by : | Reply
I fell in love with a man who is a pathalogical liar. He and I have been together for nearly three years, and I know by now that nothing I can say or do will change him. He is a 50yr old man who cannot help himself but lie about everything. I know he loves me as best as he can possibly do but it's not the kind of love that a normal caring human being could feel. He is self oriented, all he cares about is himself in the end, and he doesn't care how many people's lives he crushes to get what he wants. The sad thing is, he is so smart, so talented, so sweet when he wants to be...But in the end the core of his being, which is to lie to get what he wants, is his ultimate down fall. He will forever live his life in torment because he has screwed with so many lives. He is unchangable as the the color of my eyes. He is will always be focused on himself, and he will always to seek to get what he wants. Sad but true. Run away from people like this. There is no point in trying to fix something that is broke and unfixable.
May 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Posted by : | Reply
Gosh, I'm on here to find out how to deal with a pathological liar.
It's one thing to play along with it, like no big deal. But when I see my grandson learning this from his mother? It's got to stop.
He is picking up her ways on how to lie and he's only 9 years old.
His mom gets away with it, now he thinks he can act that way and get away with it.
And while they do this, it's like they're the smart ones and the rest of us are idiots. Idiots for allowing them to behave this way.
When I try to approach her on this subject of her lying, then she turns into this "poor me mode", and makes up another lie to get people angry at me. My hands are tied, and I give up on this matter. I just hate seeing my wonderful grandson , starting to behave like his mom.
June 1, 2008 3:13 AM | Posted, in reply to , by : | Reply
In reply to the comment made on Aprill 22, 2008:
You sound exactly like the person who is the reason I looked up this article. This person was a close friend who, over the course of several months, told me some pretty serious fabrications, everything from losing her virginity while drunk at a party, how that same guy stalked her (she actually called me once to say he had just shown up at her work and she was pretty sure he was following her), how she was molested by her sister's husband when she was six, how she was seeing a therapist, to how she took fourteen Tylenol and had her stomach pumped. She would even tell me, on several occasions, that she was suicidal.
However, I had a number of sources that told me she was a liar, so I took every "serious" thing she said with a grain of salt. After several months of lies, she finally admitted that she made everything up, and her reasons sound very similar to yours, as far as being insecure and having low self-esteem. What it came down to was that she needed to feel important to other people, needed to feel like she was cared about. In her head, she thought the only way to gain people's trust so that they would tell her their major, private problems was to tell them her own, so she made up her own serious problems. With this warped logic, she thought that the only way to gain people's trust was to lie to them.
She also told me that she always just wanted something to be wrong with her. What it all came down to was she wanted to feel loved, but it was crazy that she didn't feel that way in the first place. Aside from her lying problem, she's got a very normal life: she's got two loving parents, a beautiful home, she's smart, pretty, and talented in a number of areas, and she has plenty of friends. She was never abused as a child, nor has she witnessed, been a part of, or affected by any tragic event. She just wanted attention.
In all honesty, we're not as close as we used to be, but it's not because she lied. I made it my goal to get her to stop lying, and as far as I know, she has, and she's apologized to the people she's hurt with her lies. Ironically, we're not as close because, once she stopped lying, she turned to other kinds of attention-seeking behavior, like drinking to be "cool" and randomly hooking up with inappropriate guys and dating guys she doesn't care that much about just to fit in.
But back to you: The lying can stop. Even if you don't actually come clean about past lies, you don't have to tell any more. Just stop, and let others get to know you, see you for who you really are. You don't need lie to sound interesting or to feel like people care about you. Like I told me friend, you're not a horrible person, you just want to be cared for. It's not a lot to ask for, but it's easier to get when you're honest.
June 16, 2008 8:09 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I MET A VERY SMART, KIND MAN A YEAR AGO, HE IS A THERAPIST THAT WORKS WITH ME AT THE HOSPITAL . MY BROTHER COMMITED SUCIDE LAST YEAR, THAT'S HOW I MET HIM. HE TOLD ME HE WAS GOING THRU A BAD DIVORCE BECAUSE HE WANTED CHILDREN AND HIS WIFE DIDN'T. HE TOLD ME HE WANTED CHILDREN. THAT HE WENT TO A COLLEGE IN TEXAS,WHERE HIS PARENTS LIVED ON A HUGE RANCH. HE SAID HE SPENT TIME WITH THE HOMELESS KIDS IN ATLANTA, AND THAT ONE KID DIED OF CANCER WHILE HE SAT WITH HIM FOR DAYS. I FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM BECAUSE HE WAS SUCH A GOOD MAN. (I THOUGHT). I ALWAYS WONDERED WHY I COULD NEVER GO TO HIS HOUSE AND HE WOULD ONLY CALL ME WHEN WE WERE AT WORK. NEVER AT NIGHT . I FOUND OUT THROUGH A PHONE CALL I RECEIVED FROM HIS GIRLFRIEND (NOT WIFE) HE WAS NEVER MARRIED THAT HE LIVES WITH HER . HE HAS NEVER OWEND A HOUSE , HIS PARENTS ARE POOR AND LIVE DON'T LIVE IN TEXAS ON A RANCH. EVERYTHING HE EVER TOLD ME WAS A LIE. HE EVEN SAID HE HAD FIVE SISTERS!! I WOULD HEAR HIM TALK TO THEM ON THE PHONE FROM TIME TO TIME. WELL THEY DON'T EXIST EITHER. HE DOESN'T HAVE FIVE SISTERS. THIS IS SOOOO SCARY BECAUSE HE MAKES EVERYTHING SOUND SO BELIEVEABLE . TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT THE GIRLFRIEND TOOK HIM BACK. WE HAD BEEN SEEING EACHOTHER FOR ALMOST A YEAR. HE WOULD SPEND EVERY WEEKEND AT MY HOUSE . THE GIRLFRIEND SAID HE WOULD TELL HER HE WAS AT A TRAP SHOOTING CAMP OUT OF TOWN EVERY WEEKEND. IT IS VERY SAD TO ME TO KNOW THERE ARE THERAPIST WORKING WITH PEOPLE IN NEED FOR HELP WHO THEMSELVES ARE MESSED UP IN HEAD SO BADLY .
June 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Posted by : | Reply
My son is 19 and I believe a pathological liar. I am looking for help for him because I really believe that this problem is going to ruin his life. I cannot believe a word he says. He was going to a community college and just stopped going but continued to tell me he was going. I told him to apply for a job which he said he did and he never did. He lies to his girlfriend to his friends, even to his grandparents. Sometimes, like this article talks about,its about things that don't even matter. Like the other day, he told me he went to see this movie and he really liked it and I found out that the movie had not even come out yet. Also I heard him telling his friend a story about something that happened to me once and he made it be his experience down to the very detail.Why does he do it? Where can I get help for him?
July 11, 2008 2:21 AM | Posted by : | Reply
I love the way you present the literature in understandable plain English.
I guess there is not hardcore name for big, fat, scumbag liars who lie to manipulate, steal, slander and gain power maliciously etc.
Scumbag liars is good. I suggest you put this forth as an idea. Then the rest of us actually have access to really helpful and important information ie. the victims of these liars.
Thanks again for the article. I was surprised that I was mistaken about pathological liars. They are gomers and the other, more maliscious ones are scumbags. Good to laugh at a subject that has just about disembowelled me in the past.
Bev
July 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Posted by : | Reply
Scary. I was wondering why I had many weird-ass daydreams, or even my behavior and fantasy-like superiority complex.
Is there a cure?
July 22, 2008 11:53 PM | Posted by : | Reply
About four months ago I found out that I had been in love with a pathological liar for 10 years. We've been married for seven years and are now getting a divorce. What's wrong with me that it took me ten years to figure it out.
He tells lies to get sympathy, money, drugs, out of trouble, into peoples lives, and sometimes for no apparent reason. We have two children and I believe that the only reason he spends time with them is because they make him feel good about himself. I worry about them when they are with him. A year ago our son was sick with a cold. My husband came home from work and saw this. Then he said that someone at work had a daughter that had meninghitis. At the time my husband had a pain medication addiction. We took our son straight to the emergency room. Apparently the only way to test for meninghitis is a lumbar puncture or spinal tap. My son endured two attempts at this before the doctor said that he should be transfered to a children's hospital. We got there and got him settled in his room and then my husband started telling the doctor about his pain from a car accident he had had two years earlier. The doctor said that he would write him a prescription. The next day our son had more blood drawn for tests. It was just a cold. Later I found out that he lied about the meninghitis, but I don't know for sure if it was all planned to get more pain medicine.
He also cheated on me with a woman that caught on to his lies much faster than I did. He told her that I had left him and the kids and that our son had cancer. Apparently she gave him money. She also has a son. Her son, it seems got attatched to him.
These are just the worst of the lies he has told. I was a naive person until all of this. I really didn't know that people like this were so numerous.
Should I be scared? What should I do?
July 24, 2008 1:44 PM | Posted by : | Reply
Clearly you've met my ex-husband.
In all seriousness, thank you for the very interesting and entertaining read.
July 30, 2008 9:08 AM | Posted by : | Reply
A true pathological liar rarely gets caught... most of you or have experience people who are complusive liars. People who lie,but makes no damn sense. A pathological liar does not believe his or her own lies or has some scho fantasy disorder type bs listed. Its merely a person who can think quicker and more complex then a regular person. A person who can read people easliy. Someone who has a higher EQ, verbal IQ and maybe IQ in general. So this bs about you know someone etc etc and your tired of it, your just dealling with someone who makes up shit then tells you out of habit. Pathological liars don't realize at first that there going into a lie until they are in the middle of telling it or are done. They lack the remorse and feel little guilt if any from lieing because of the way their brains are designed, more white matter means the ability to think and reason better, less grey matter not feeling guilt for doing it.
There the exact opposite of an austic person who finds lieing practicly impossible. You know how i know all this... because ive been a pathological liar since i was 6 years old and im now 28... Im not known for this or ever have been known, course if i were accused Im so good with words being that i have a higher verbal IQ that id just get out of it. So you probably know a pathological liar just not the one you think is one.
July 31, 2008 12:02 AM | Posted by : | Reply
Why do all of the pathological liars that have posted comments on this site spell "lying" wrong? It's not lieing. It's strange. My soon to be ex-husband does it too.
August 8, 2008 7:09 PM | Posted, in reply to , by : | Reply
Yikes!! May want to read up on the Casey Anthony/Caylee Anthony case... Good Luck
August 18, 2008 11:15 PM | Posted by : | Reply
True pathological liars don't usually get past me regardless. They may from time to time when they lie about things that seem a tad normal, but they get caught when they make mistakes in story lines, or lie about things that obviously most of them do, knowing certain people or stories that they change around because they are too impulsive to remember the last time they said this.
Just know you have to be more observant and remember they need you to buy into the bullshit, just tell them you think they are lying, I do always, later on they eventually would be honest. If you don't play their game they are forced to admit to their lies.
August 29, 2008 12:23 AM | Posted by : | Reply
My daughter failed out of communtiy college, came home for Christmas, but didn't tell us until we got her grades in the mail. She had been telling us she was doing so well in Psychology that she had a B+ and didn't need to take the midterm.
She was on the rap dance team, the only white girl. Was getting a special outfit and hair done for the big competition at the teen nightclub, everyone was going to be there to see her dance. She saw some of these people there and told me all about it - never happened.
Stole all my gold jewelry, sold her computer (told us she'd given it to her boyfriend) was living with boyfriend for months, not a word from her, we were frantic, then she reappeared for Christmas - to get her presents no doubt.
Was home since Christmas - said she broke up with boyfriend, had me drop her off at a nearby apt. but didn't want me to watch her go in, finally admitted that she was seeing the old boyfriend again.
Took my gas card and let people fill up - they gave her the cash.
She is a beautiful girl, had learning disabilities in high school and I think she does a lot of this to make herself feel important. She is very verbal, surpised the teachers when they saw her test results, low iq.
She stole $300 out of my purse, we had changed the locks on our front door, office & bedroom to keep her out, I found she had a set of those keys. When I confronted her with the money theft, she moved out -- I believe she took the money for th esecurity deposit on an apt. with a friend - gosh, I'm actually relieved that she's gone, but wonder if I should warn the friend to watch her stuff!
She had numerous traffic tickets which she ignored, one day she called me to say they were towing my car away, turns out she's charged with a misdemeanor for driving with a suspended license. we had to get an attorney, she gave us $200, but now stole back $300. I'm really worried about her, twice she's been picked up by police for being in a bad part of town, they've called us to come get her, she looks younger than her age and all innocent.
Says she's doing fine at work, practically runs the store, can't help but wonder what they really think of her, but grateful that she has a job!
September 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Posted, in reply to , by : | Reply
It was sad and funny at the same time to read your statements...all of them familiar. You are right, it can be pretty entertaining fun, but I am stuck in a relationship w/ one and I have developed very strong feelings for someone I constantly have to question. It hurts to find out he wasn't a "certified electrician" or all those times he called me on his "lunch hour" he didn't even have a job. Of course it makes me question everything he has ever said. Unfortunately his siblings lie often, too, but for some reason I can tell when they are. Robert is very good except for his alcohol/drug-induced moments where he tells me outlandish ones (for example: Told me that his dad shot himself in the head by accident and may be dead. I didn't believe him and the next day I learned that his dad hurt himself w/ a knife by accident.) I have learned of so many lies now and am still counting. Unfortunately, I am at a point where I don't know if I can live w/ that anymore.
September 8, 2008 1:59 PM | Posted, in reply to , by : | Reply
I feel for you, I really do. It's a horrible feeling to find out all the lies that your loved one told you and it makes you question everything. It makes you feel like a fool. It's very scary to me so I know where you're comin from. Robert has lied to get drugs before, too.
September 26, 2008 2:59 PM | Posted by : | Reply
The reason I found this blog is because Casey Anthony's (you know...Where is Caylee?)lying has piqued my interest. This lying thing... Reading all these stories has been interesting. It's so amazing to me how people could live the life of a liar. The grey matter/white matter thing...low esteem...learned behavior from parents and friends etc. I've seen this in a step son I once had. His lying became so bad...he would lie to just to lie (also steal, cut school etc). Anything he said...just lies. He would lie and stick to his lies and if caught, he would only give in under extreme punishment. It got so you could not believe a word he said...not one! Finally because of his behavior I got a divorce...solely because of this kid...sad but true. I knew if things went on I'd eventually beat the crap out of him and lose my retirement.
It still amazes me about lying...I guess the only thing you can do is spot them and then disassociate with them. If they're an asset to know, then gain from that and then...move on/disassociate as much as possible...even if they are a relative!...also, never give them any money. And... they will probably try to continue to snow you...just walk off/hang up.
They might try to find a soft button in you...don't buy it! It's so sad that there are people like this.
So...check peoples stories...because there are liars out there...don't be naive. A friend once said "Believe 1/10 of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see" Hmmm maybe he's right.
October 5, 2008 7:48 AM | Posted by : | Reply
Thank you so much for your refreshingly honest and open look at the narcissistic, manipulative, powerless (and therefore powerful wannabes) liars, who decided to live their fake, soap-opera lives in the deep dark depths of evil and falsehood.
I enjoyed reading much of what you accurately described!
Thank you again,
Abraham
November 16, 2008 11:03 PM | Posted by : | Reply
I've seen several posts here asking for advice on how to deal with a pathological liar. The reason why there's hasn't been much, if any replies on how to deal with them is because you CAN'T! Impossible!
My 19 yr old stepdaughter is someone whom I would definitely say is a pathological liar. Nearly every phrase she utters is just a complete, pointless lie. It's interfered in her life, my family life, not to mention her father's life (my husband). She's sucked us dry for every single penny of savings we have. She has a 7 month old baby girl, and she uses her baby as leverage with my husband so he'll dish out more money to her. Every person outside of the family she meets probably thinks we're monsters as she presents the entire family, including her siblings, as abusive and intolerant. NOT! She's been living with us since she was 9 and I damn well she wasn't abused, neglected or unloved. She definitely was. She's attractive and smart. And the most prolific liar I've ever met in my life.
There is absolutely no way to deal with habitual liars other than to walk away. Shrug off as much as you can and keep all contact to a minimum. Confronting them really doesn't do any good, as they'll continue to lie, or twist things around to such an extent that in the end, you'll be the one to feel like the crazy one. Or, they'll get verbally or physically abusive. There is no "dealing" with them.
In the end, I think that knowing her has made me a better person, though. I realise that all people lie "sometimes". I rarely, if ever even tell a white lie anymore. I can't stand the thought of lying after knowing her and the detrimental effects she's had on this entire family. And I'm also getting quite good at spotting other liars as well. Ok... I've learned enough from that girl. I wish I could just get her out of our lives now.
November 16, 2008 11:05 PM | Posted by : | Reply
After reading my typo's in my last post... it was meant to say she "definitely wasn't" in reference to abuse or neglect.
I was fired up as you can tell :P
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