March 18, 2007

Pathological Liars

So you think you might be dating a pathological liar? No, you're not. He's just a big jerk.

The popular stereotype of a pathological liar-- a chronic liar, deceiver, who lies to get out of things, or into things; who tries to con you into something, or control you; who cheats on you and then denies it, makes up stories about where he was-- all this is wrong. It's malingering, but it isn't pathological lying. He's a tool, but he's not psychiatric.

"Pathological lying" is often interchanged with "pseudologia fantastica." (NB: many psychiatrists use pseudologia fantastica interchangably with confabulation-- this is also wrong, as will be described below.) Pathological lying was originally defined as complex lies which are internally consistent, that may drag on for years and-- and this is the key point-- do not have an obvious purpose or gain. They're not trying to con you into or out of anything. They're just making crap up.

The lies are unplanned, spontaneous. Once told, they generally stick (for years)-- but it's fair to say the pathological liar doesn't know what he's going to say until he says it. He is a bullshit artist who makes it up as he goes along, and who then semi-believes his own crap.

And the lies aren't even useful lies. You ask him what he did last Saturday and he tells you he went to the museum; and maybe he says at the museum he saw a guy try to rob the gift shop, but he got caught by two off duty cops wearing blue hats. And later you learn he was really at a movie with his girlfriend and you think, why the hell did this freak make all that up?

That's why it's called pathological.

A pathological liar is like a 4 year old kid, who tells you what happened to him down by the lake. Meanwhile, there's no lake.

The important question here is this: does the pathological liar know he is lying? Or does he believe his stories? Is he lying, or is he delusional?

The answer is: both. Sort of.

He is not delusional, but he hovers in that half-world of the narcissist (oh, there's that tie-in), where the lies are believed until he gets caught, but then-- and this is the move that only a few can pull off-- he acknowledges that the "facts" are lies, but not the essence, the spirit. "Ok, look, I'm not really in the CIA." But in his mind, he knows that if conditions were right-- if something big went down-- he could be exactly like a CIA agent, and that's close enough. If he saw a suicide bomber, he'd be able to movie- kung fu him, grab the Sig Sauer and squeeze off a few rounds. He also knows which wire to clip. How does he know? Because he's in the CIA.

If aliens actually did come and attack us, he knows he would actually be able to fly a spaceship.

Pathological lying is not "confabulation." In both cases, lies are told spontaneously and freely, without clear intent, purpose, or gain-- except that in confabulation, the reason the person lies is to fill in the deficits in his memory; he can't remember what actually happened. Hence confabulation is associated with dementia ("when I was 18 I went to Paris with my unit and I saw... 8 puppies get eaten by Chamberlain and de Gaulle-- hand to God I saw it"), and especially with alcoholic dementia/hallucinosis ("I don't know what happened to me-- six guys jumped me... yeah... six... Canadian guys, I think they were Satanists, no, wait, Stalinists, yeah, that's right, and they could read my mind...")

What about biological correlates? There aren't any, because this isn't a disease, it's a description. Here's an example: an article entitled, "Prefrontal white matter in pathological liars" found massively (20%+) increased prefrontal white matter, and a 40% decrease grey/white matter ratio in pathological liars, as compared to both controls and antisocials. But before you crack an anatomy book to figure out what that means (more prefrontal white matter= more ability to think and reason), you should know that the subjects they labeled "pathological liars" were really people who purposely and frequently lie to get a gain-- in other words, they were big fat evil scumbag liars, but not pathological liars. What this study found was that people who frequently lie develop a better brain for manipulating information, remembering stories, etc-- which is interesting, but not all that surprising.

My take is that pathological lying is a disorder of identity; the person imagines for himself an separate identity, and then fantasizes experiences and events which may be otherwise ordinary and predictable-- he went to the museum-- but in his mind happen only to "that" person. The lies hold the clues to that identity, but they may not be obvious. For example, maybe the part of the lie that's important isn't that he saw a guy rob the gift shop and get arrested, but that he was at the museum by himself-- the point is that he imagines himself a loner, or an artsy type, etc. Or maybe he's sees himself living in a world where crimes happen frequently. And maybe he thinks he's a superhero.

The pathological liar doesn't place much value in experience; it's all in identification. He doesn't need to be in the military to know exactly what it's like, because he's watched enough war movies (e.g. one) or read Tom Clancy. (Aside: that's the huge appeal of Clancy and Crichton-- enough detail to make you think you know the inner workings of the professions they describe.) It's wrong to dismiss the lies as valueless; like Zelig, these people do have an intuitive grasp of the relevant thought process, emotions, affects, and even consequences of the experiences they describe. They're just made up. So when he gets caught in his lie, he secretly blames the other person for not appreciating that whether it's a lie or not is trivial, irrelevant; it still affected him just the same.

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(It would be interesting to study whether (true) pathological liars are able to provide a better "profile" of criminals, heads of state, etc, than professional profilers, and what supplementary factors might improve the accuracy of the profile. ("Here are some videos/documents on Vladimir Putin. Tell us what you think. Then, go out to dinner with this beautiful blonde ex-FSB agent and see if you come up with any further insights.") I suspect also that pathological liars would more predictably pass the new fMRI lie detectors; these detect binary lies ("are you this or are you not this?") but pathological liars hold contradictory truths simultaneously and thus may not register as deceptive. (P.S. I think I know how the test procedure can be altered to pick this up; but I also think I know how these tests can be reliably beaten. If anyone wants to study this, let me know.))

Score: 11 (15 votes cast)

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Comments

March 18, 2007 8:17 PM | Posted by AK: | Reply

LP wrote:

"...but pathological liars hold contradictory truths simultaneously and thus may not register as deceptive."

Question from an interested lay person:

Could pathological lying have any tie-ins to dissociation or to something that Orne termed 'trance logic'?

If I understand it correctly, trance logic occurs when someone functions as a child but uses a facade of adult level rationalization.

For an analogy, it would be like using a primitve, 1980s operating system to try and run MS Word.

Many revert to trance logic when under severe stress. Great ways to witness trance logic are those situations in which politicians and CEOs are caught with their pants down, or a religious leader crashes and burns in a drug and sex scandal and the hapless disciples insist that its actually enlightened teaching, not really a drug and sex mess.

Score: 2 (2 votes cast)

March 18, 2007 11:42 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

So, it's pathological if the lie serves no purpose? It's not pathological if it's to get something or to get out of trouble? I'm always surprised when it's someone successful who compulsively lies. I knew this doc who lied every time his lips were moving. He told me he was vegan, I guess he forgot he was vegan, because he sure enjoyed his 3 meat bbq plate. I thought that was a stupid thing to lie about. It might have made sense if I was vegan, but I'm not. I guess I was supposed to be impressed? Eveything had to be big and grandiose with him. Pathological liars also tend to brag a lot. E.g. "I have a hummer." Funny, but I never saw the hummer. Must have been in the shop 24 hours a day every day. I guess I just expect that people who are successful wouldn't be that insecure, sadly that's no guarantee.

Score: 0 (6 votes cast)

April 7, 2007 1:12 PM | Posted by Tom Wilson: | Reply

Don't expect the fMRI would not be able to detect various types of liars. Pathological liars use mental activity to lie and it can be detected. It may be different than the 'normal' person who lies or it may not be. In any event the mental activity will give the person away as research with the fMRI advances.

Score: -2 (4 votes cast)

April 15, 2007 4:41 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

My question is --what to do WITH a pathological liar?

You're at work, and a co-worker comes up and tells a crazy story about another co-worker, say.

Do you nod and smile? Confront him? Tell him "Stop lying. Everyone who works here knows you tell stories"?

Will confronting him make him make up MORE stories about you as revenge?

How does one deal?

Score: 12 (14 votes cast)

April 15, 2007 4:45 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

also, the biggest question I have re pathological liars is why don't they experience shame at the thought that, "This person knows I lie to make myself look more important."

Like, many lies that the pathological liar I know tells are self-aggrandizing. "I fought off a mugger. I played varsity hockey and was recruited heavily." etc etc.

Presumably this is a sign of a desire to impress people, right? Then if he cares so much what his listeners think, why isn't he embarassed to be caught lying to them?

Score: 4 (16 votes cast)

May 2, 2007 10:00 PM | Posted by Apu apocifina apelfoen: | Reply

my friend...she tells me all this crap about how she gts raped...she has brain tumors...shes got pregnant and had "under-the-counter-abortions" without her parent's knowing.....(shes only 16 so that wouldnt work..) and she tells me NOT TO TELL ANYONE .. but she tells everyone herself...and yea. its SUPER annoying. and i think, she may actually believe all these things..how do i confront her?

Score: 7 (13 votes cast)

May 9, 2007 1:32 PM | Posted by MissLynne: | Reply

This is a very interesting article and like a previous comment, I am curious about 2 things.

1 - how do you deal with a pathological liar. My significant other and I have been dealing with a habitual and pathological liar for about 3 years now. the worse part is she is the custodial parent of their daughter. based on my experience with her, i believe that this disorder is DIRECTLY related to schizophrenia and/or multiple personality disorder. the scariest part - of course - is this person believes her own lies.

and 2 - how do you confront this type of person. right now my thoughts are that these types of people are beyond help, being that they believe their own lies.

anyone know of using pathological lies as support in family court?

Score: 9 (11 votes cast)

May 14, 2007 7:19 AM | Posted by hannah bruce: | Reply

My mother was diagnosed as a pathalogical liar in the 1980's she left both myself and my half brother. Do you think its possible to recover from such an illness?

Score: 5 (7 votes cast)

June 11, 2007 2:40 PM | Posted by Lucy: | Reply

My friend constantly lies about the stupidest things. It is unbelievably irritating and sometimes i just want to explode with anger. Usually i just don't say anything because i know if i do she'll lie herself out of it and then try and make me feel guilty and tell others who don't know she lies to turn them against me. On occasions i have confronted her when i have had full evidence but she never gives an explanation, she just says "I'm really going to be a different person, i really want to be good friends with you" but she never ever does. The types of lies she tells are things like "My eighty year old aunt is in hospital with a brain tumor and they don't know if she's going to be ok" She usually tells them after she has seen someone else getting attention for a similar reason. Her stories are always much worse though so that she will defintely get the most attention. She has all the traits of a person who is a pathological liar. I really don't know what to do about it and whether she'll grow out of it.

Score: 5 (7 votes cast)

June 16, 2007 7:31 AM | Posted by Pauleela: | Reply

From all I've read I don't feel so alone trying to deal with the liar in my life (my sister). She "embellishes" everything, even the simplest of matters. Most upsetting is when she looks to me for backup (I never back her up). Can a person be a pathological liar and just an "ordinary liar" at the same time? Is embellishing to the nth degree lying? I think it is. Well, I must say I am a bit confused. The most important question, to me, is how to deal with such a person. I surely don't want to be the victim of the latest fabrication.
Enjoying the posts... very helpful..
*pauleela*

Score: 4 (6 votes cast)

June 23, 2007 9:40 PM | Posted by danny boo: | Reply

This was a great, insightful blog. I know a woman, 28, who constantly lies to me about where she lives. I know she lives at such and such an address, I often went there at her invitation, but a few months ago, she suddently told me she moved to another address and she told me the new address and when I went there, i found out that there is no such address. But she continues to tell me she lives at this new address and has moved from the old address, but i know for a fact that she still lives at the old address, my friends have seen her go into the building, and i have seen her go into the building, and so she continues to be this amazing pathological liar, even tells me i am her best friend, and she is very friendly and loving and romantic when we meet at other places, and on the phone, but she continues to insist she has moved and lives at a new address, when in fact she doesn't. so sad. Her background is this, at 17 she was trafficked to a new country from her native Malaysia to marry an older man, he was 47, and she had two kids by him in 4 years, both boys, and then he threw her out, after giving him the two male heirs he was after, to continue the family line and name, so out on the street, she went into the sex business and has worked there from 22 to 28, and my guess is she was sexually absued as a kid, marriage was also hell, her parents sold her to traffickers, and now, even though she makes good money, and bought an expensive car, without even having a drivers license, she lives in a kind of fantasy land with pathological lying, denials that don't make sense, appointments that are never met, sleeps at night with aid of roofies for 6 years and Stillnox too, so i imagine her brain has been scrambled. but what most interests me is how she insists she has moved and i know she has not moved. sad case. but your commentary sheds light on this very vexing issue of pathological lying. yes, she gains nothing from this action, she wants nothing from me, in fact, in every other way, she is a good friend, but this lying is so weird. AND she is very narcissitic too, always making videos of herself only playing around in her apartment with new clothes she buys.... so bipolar, drugged out, narccsy, p liar, premature birth as well, she told me, famililes, lovesless, abused all her life....and yet such a sweet woman when she is in a good mood.

Score: 0 (4 votes cast)

June 23, 2007 9:45 PM | Posted by danny boo: | Reply

apu, i think you are right re:

''i believe that this disorder is DIRECTLY related to schizophrenia and/or multiple personality disorder. the scariest part - of course - is this person believes her own lies.''

i think pahtolocail liars are closely related to multiple personality via abuse cases..... it's their way to COPE, so have pity on them and don't get angry, try to understand it from their abuse case....

Score: 6 (8 votes cast)

July 21, 2007 2:30 PM | Posted by billie: | Reply

My 77 year old father has chronically lied his whole life. Now that he is older, he has developed health care problems that also affect his health - it's ironic that he spent what should have been the best years of his life doing what he now does because he is a very ill man. Has anyone else had the experience of growing up with a parent who is a chronic liar?

Score: 3 (5 votes cast)

July 23, 2007 10:27 AM | Posted by JOHN HENRY SOULES: | Reply

BOY THIS HITS THE NAIL ON THE HEAD. IT REMINDS ME SO MUCH OF MYSELF. I LOVE LYING TO EVERYONE AROUND ME AND IT MAKES ME FEEL LIKE A MAN THAT I CAN GET SO MANY PEOPLE TO BELIEVE ME. I GET SYMPATHY AND EVERYTHING EVEN THE LOVE OF A GOOD WOMAN WHO HAS NO IDEA WHAT AN EVIL PERSON I AM.

Score: -15 (23 votes cast)

July 29, 2007 6:07 PM | Posted by Morgan: | Reply

The most amazing pathological liar I ever met was this guy who had a house and my boyfriend and I needed a place to stay. The guy said he was a skipper on a ship and was leaving on job soon for idustrial fishing by Alaska. He said he needed a house sitter while he was gone. He left and I heard later he was roaming around town. Turns out that he was a squatter and didn't really even own the house he asked us to look after.

Score: -4 (6 votes cast)

August 14, 2007 7:09 AM | Posted by Olyveoil: | Reply

I came here hoping to find answers only to find more questions. Currently, I have a 22 year old mother of 2 living with me. She is my daughter. She was not abused in this house, emotionally nor physically. We have two children, both raised in the same manner. The one has grown up to be "normal", but she seems absolutely bent upon running to things that get her into trouble and lies about it. She lies about her friends and work. She seems to have no ambition in life, but to hang out with people like her. Last night I caught her lying to me about being at work. I had the children and she was supposedly at work. I called her work place at closing time and was told that she never even showed her face last night. I confronted her and she still insisted that she did go there. I don't know what to do. She's still living here because she is the custodial parent of her two little girls and we're very concerned what she will expose them to in regard to her so-called friends and her chosen lifestyle. Any good advice anyone?

Thanks.

Score: 4 (6 votes cast)

August 18, 2007 11:59 PM | Posted by Liane J. Leedom, M.D.: | Reply

I am a psychiatrist and have recently reviewed the literature on pathologic lying. I can find no evidence that people other than narcieesists, borderlines and antisocials do this.

Alone's response: do what-- lie? (Or be pathological liars?) I'm not sure, but the framing of your statement suggests to me that you see "borderline" and "antisocial" as fixed categories-- you are, or are not, borderline-- as opposed to a description of behavior and thought which is changeable given context.

Score: -2 (4 votes cast)

August 29, 2007 8:32 AM | Posted by latoya: | Reply

My boyfriend of a year has been lying to me almost the entire time. Everytime we got into an argument he would get a phone call from someone telling him that someone in his family died. Withink 8 months he had lost everyone, or so I thought. I finally figured out the truth and he is making up excuses as to why he lied. He said he did it to preserve our relationship. I think it goes deeper than that. He worked hard to make me think they were dead and to constantly gain my sympathy. He used it to gain financial support from me because I felt so sorry for him I wouldn't keep pressing him to get a job. Towards the end he turned violent. Now he is apologetic and wants me to assume a portion of the guilt for his behavior and make a plan for the relationship to work in the future. I think he might have a personality disorder that goes even deeper.....

Score: 5 (7 votes cast)

August 30, 2007 11:52 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I recently learned that a man I really care for lied to me about some of the most fundamental details about himself and his life. He did it with such ease that I didn't even suspect anything for the first couple of months that I knew him. I gently confronted him with the contradictory information and he maintained that he was telling the truth. I couldn't believe it, because the facts were right there in black and white. I still care for this man (although certainly not like I did before), but I never trust anything he tells me anymore. I feel sorry for him because he obviously has some problems, but his behavior really hurt me.

Score: 0 (4 votes cast)

August 31, 2007 6:48 AM | Posted by Jermaine Ghia: | Reply

My EX girlfriend lied like this. Whenever anything would come up in our relationship where it was even suggested that she did something wrong she would reflexively lie about it, making up whatever excuse was necessary to get out of being responsible for her actions. Our relationship ended when she lied about where she was so she could see her ex boyfriend. I believed her at first and accidentally discovered her lie. She immediately made up a new story and just abandoned her original one. Each time I would point out all the holes in her story and then she would just modify it or change it all together if necessary. She thought nothing of just changing a story after it was pointed out that it couldn't be true. AFter all was said and done she went through 4 completely different versions of what happened, the final one being the most ridiculous. She would always try and turn the situation around on me and make me into the bad guy for exposing her lies, one time she told me that I betrayed her trust by checking up on her and 'letting her think that I trusted her.' This was after catching her in a lie. I won't even speak to her now.

Score: 6 (10 votes cast)

August 31, 2007 1:25 PM | Posted by Ra: | Reply

i think i am a pathological liar. i have no idea why i do it. my brother does it, my dad. for no reason at all. is there any way to stop?

Alone's response: yes. Decide to stop. Pathological liars fill the void of their identity with words. If the words stop, then the identity is uncovered and subjected to scrutiny. You have to be brave enough to withstand that scrutiny.

It's like a teenager, who hides in plain sight; who talks, dresses, acts in a manner he believes to be unique and independent, but which is so obviously common to everyone else in his group. It's all made up, but he feels it as genuine. What matters is that others see and judge the clothes, the words-- so they don't think to judge the person underneath.

Score: 8 (10 votes cast)

September 17, 2007 8:49 PM | Posted by REALLY HURT: | Reply

I HAVE BEEN SEEING THIS GUY I WAS REALLY EMOTIONALLY IN LOVE WITH ON AND OFF FOR 15 YRS. THE OFF TIMES WERE ME GETTING HURT BY HIS DECIET. WE WERE BROKE UP ONE TIME FOR 3 YRS. HE GOT ENGAGED SHE BROKE IT OFF(WOULD LOVE TO KNOW THE REAL REASON) HE SAID HER FRIENDS AT CHURCH THOUGHT IT WAS NOT A GOOD IDEA.HE ALWAYS CAME BACK INTO MY LIFE.MOSTLY TOGETHER FOR MONTHS THEN I WOULD FEEL THE DECIET AND WE WOULD BE OFF AGAIN. THIS LAST TIME HE WAS BACK FOR 4 1/2 YRS. AND IT WAS GREAT, FEW PROBLEMS. I WAS HIS "ONE TRUE LOVE" THEN HIS MOM DIED ,THEN MY BROTHER DIED THAT BROUGHT US EVEN CLOSER TOGETHER. WE HAD LONG TALKS ABOUT EVERYTHING AND WERE THERE FOR EACH OTHER.HE PROFESSED THAT THE YEARS OF DECIET WAS HISTORY AND IF IT TOOK A LIFE TIME TO PROVE IT HE WOULD.WE HAD THE BEST OF TIMES. DANCING...LAUGHING.. SITTING ON THE BEACH WATCHING THE SUN SET...SITTING UNDER THE STARS.. "HERES THE KICKER" HE GETS THIS JOB DELIVERING TRAILERS ALL OVER THE UNITED STATES FOR A BUNCH OF MONEY(RED FLAG)HE CALLS ME THO ALL DAY LONG AND ALWAYS TELLS ME GOOD NITE. ALWAYS TRYING TO PROVE TO ME HE IS AN HONORABLE MAN. WELL HE DIDNT TELL ME WHAT WAS IN THE TRAILERS. FBI POPS HIM AND F I N A L L Y I HERE FROM HIM A MONTH LATER.PROFESSING HIS LOVE. I WRITE BACK YOU "LIE LIE LIE". ALL THOSE PHONE CALLS I AM WORRIED ABOUT HIM AND HE IS DOING "WHAT"!!! HE GETS A GOOD LAWYER,GETS OUT AND LEAVES ME A MESSAGE THAT I WASNT THERE FOR HIM HE WAS INNOCENT! THAT HE LOVED ME SO MUCH AND I REALLY HURT HIM THAT MY LETTER TO HIM KILLED HIM. SAID "GOOD BYE" AND HUNG UP. HE HAS NO PHONE NOW AND I DONT KNOW WHERE HE IS.THIS IS "MY KICKER" I FEEL BAD THAT I WASNT THERE FOR HIM. AND I MISS HIS 50 TEXTS A DAY AND PHONE CALLS OF LOVE. "WHY DO I FEEL SO BAD AND ALL ALONE" ??????

Score: 0 (6 votes cast)

October 1, 2007 11:14 PM | Posted by Murphy: | Reply

According to your definition, there is no doubt in my mind that I am a pathological liar. Every point you made matched me spot on. I've thought that I was for a very long time. I definitely lie less than I once did, but I still do it, as recently as last night even. My question for you is, do you recommend confronting the lies? Would revealing the truth to people I've lied to possibly help? These lies aren't particularly destructive, but they have gone on for years, and my only real concern is stopping more lies from happening.

Alone's response: I can't tell you what to do about your past. But I can tell you what to do for the future: just stop. And before anyone says, "that's easy for you to say" understand that the lying is not an organic compulsion, it is a learned response. When you stub your toe, do you say, "shit" reflexively? That's not genetic. Saying _something_ might be genetic, but not "shit." I know it feels reflexive, but you can now see it's a learned response. Lying= death. It invalidates your identity. Not even "bad" or immoral; nihilistic. It will likely panic one to try to interat with other people without this backup mode of interaction-- what they hell else will you say? But just as it "feels" more natural, in a sense, to lie-- like having a drink before a party conversation; you have to make it feel natural not to.

Score: 3 (3 votes cast)

October 10, 2007 8:20 PM | Posted by Monty: | Reply

I've only just been able to admit to myself that I am a pathological Lier. Sadly it has cost me my relationship and the woman I truly love. My advice to anyone who thinks they are a pathological Liar...just make a decision to stop and if you do tell a lie then admit it right away. Each day you are aware of and doing all you can to stop this awful learned behaviour and coping mechanism will move you towards a better future for you and all those around you. Start now before it becomes too late, it isn't worth the pain that may result...take it from one who lives with the pain.

Alone's response: I'm not making fun of you: but this comment could be an example of another lie, but not a pathological one. Here's an example: a person writes this here because he anticipates the type of woman who would be reading this post (e.g. one who has been in a relationship with one.) He thinks/hopes she will connect with thim because he represents something shehasn't been able to get in her own life (a repentant/self-aware liar who wants to move on), etc,etc. (Again, I'm not saying you are doing this, I'm just using your comment as a way of explaining the difference between a pathological liar and a narcissist (in this example.)

Score: 4 (4 votes cast)

October 10, 2007 10:45 PM | Posted by Need A Fix: | Reply

Let me start by saying I am a Liar. We can label it whatever anyone likes but the fact remains that what people like me are. I am not writing to try and shed light on anything just maybe to help me deal. I have stood by for most of my life and whatch as I have destroyed relationships, jobs you name it my lieing has in some way played a role in its destruction. I dont pretend to know how to fix it I still lie to this day. I now have two childern and my relationship is strained because of my lies. I am now to a point in my life I am going too do one of two things either I am going to fix it or crawl into a hole so no one else is emotionaly affected any longer. I have tried to get help and the last shrink or doctor I spoke with about told me to just stop. Easier said than done I really dont think he understood the probelm. I do however think I have my own explanations for it. I grew up in a abusive home, was not the best looking kid or talented one in my class and was always made fun of. I have come to the conculsion that my lieing is to help me feel better about myself but how to curb it is another thing. I have a good job lots of friends who care about me and family that loves me but they dont deserve this from me does anyone know where I should start? Because I am mentally tapped out and about at the end of my rope..

Best Regards
Tom AKA ?????

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

November 14, 2007 10:16 PM | Posted by Cindy: | Reply

This is all well and good, but nothing has been said about how one should deal with a liar, pathological or otherwise. My 32-year-old younger sister is a dangerous liar and an opportunistic thief, and it is ruining her life and those of her children. She lies about ordinary things when the truth would work just as well, makes up stories about being seriously ill, and tells fantastic tales about the hardships she has endured, most of which were actually caused by poor choices.

She is irresponsible with money and always has an amazing "emergency" for which she needs to "borrow" money, which she never pays back. She will also steal pretty much anything if given the opportunity. She even stole our mother's antique rosary and pawned it. My mom saw it in the pawn shop window and had the choice to either buy it back herself or call the police. She chose to buy it back to avoid having her arrested. When she asked my sister about it, she said she needed money for food for her kids and was planning on buying the rosary back as soon as she could. Any of us would have given her money for food.

Confronting my sister just makes things worse - she gets belligerent, makes up even more lies, and twists things so that the confronter feels guilty about even bringing it up.

Sometimes she rants for long periods over relatively minor events that she has blown up in her mind. This behavior started when she was a teenager. She received counseling and medication on and off in her teens and twenties and walked out of a home for troubled young women (that my parents worked hard to get her into) after only a couple of weeks. When she starts getting help, she tells everyone all about how she is bravely dealing with her tragic life, but when the sympathy and interest wear off, or when the counselor sees that my sister is lying about everything and tries to cut the crap, she gets angry and stops her treatment.

It has reached the point where my father will have nothing more to do with her, my mother is tired of being manipulated and caught in the middle, and my siblings are fed up with the money issues. It's really depressing, because I still love my sister - she's bright, funny, hardworking, and would give me the shirt off her back (even if it was mine to begin with). I want the best for her and her children, and I would love to spend time with her, but I can't even have her over to my apartment because she steals so badly, and it's emotionally draining to hear her go on about how badly the rest of the family has treated her. She was not mistreated as a child growing up in our house, and we've tried our best to support her as an adult. There were four of us kids, and the other three of us turned out to be fairly well-adjusted adults. I know that my grandmother was a narcissistic liar as well, and my sister's personality and temperament are so similar to the way she was. Anyway...there's no doubt she has a problem, but how can we help her and still protect ourselves? I can't just throw her away.

Score: 5 (5 votes cast)

November 15, 2007 12:50 AM | Posted by JessicaLynn: | Reply

I mainly have a question. I've been married for 4 months, to a wonderful man whom I have a six month old with. He ALWAYS lied when we first met. Things like saying he was legally blind, whick he obviously isn't. I mean, totally random, stupid lies. Sometimes they were actually relevant to keeping himself out of trouble, but mostly just random. We fought endlessly about it. After a couple "I'm leaving" conversations, he seemed to stop. Since then He's only lied on a couple occasions, but everytime, it makes it so much harder to trust him. Today he lied about buying lunch. Money is tight in our home right now, but I knew he needed to eat, and wouldn't have been angry if he told me the truth. Is he honestly trying, or am I just putting myself and my son in a bad place?

Score: 1 (3 votes cast)

November 24, 2007 5:40 PM | Posted by ann oakley: | Reply

I have an x daughter in law who lies about everything she says she is bring my graddaughter for a visit and never shows up and never call to say why she didnt come or anything I get so mad at her and I think it is so rude for an adult to do something like that I am just shocked that anyone would do anyone like that.what should I do or say to her it breakes my heart that she plays games with the little girl.

Score: -1 (3 votes cast)

November 27, 2007 3:04 PM | Posted by Ben: | Reply

I have been friends for about 6 years now with someone that has revealed himself to have very serious lying problem. What is truly incredible is the depth of his lies, and how fantastically detailed and consistent they are, even year after year. In the latest round, he's been contacted by a big record company to go cut a record in Nashville. When the weekend came that he was supposed to go, his phone was off the entire time... I assumed he was in studio or whatever. On that Sunday, I reached him, and he told me he didn't go, because a friend he grew up with died in a tragic car accident and he was too distraght to actually leave. So now supposedly it's rescheduled for December sometime. (Holds breath) I could write for hours on how deep the rabbit hole goes here, but the bottom line is what do you do about someone like this? His lies are virtually harmless, always told to evoke sympathy or to generate positive feelings towards him. Fantastic things happen to him at every turn. He claims he has the best and worst luck of anyone you'll ever meet. (I told him if he actually was a successful recording artist, he'd soon die in a plane crash as an example.)

I choose to keep him in my life because he's a good person that has a problem, like most of us. I never take what he says at face value, and I expect most things he says to be a lie. When I catch him in one, I confront it... but nothing changes.

So to many of you that have posted what to do with someone like this... realize you can't change them, you can only decide how you want to include them in your life, or not at all. I think unless you're really equipped to deal with them on your own terms, its easier to not deal with it at all. Good luck everyone.

Score: 5 (5 votes cast)

November 27, 2007 9:37 PM | Posted by Shana: | Reply

I have a friend who constantly tells unnecessary lies. She has had a real tough past so i was wondering if this disease can develop over time? she lost her mother in a car accident and her father abandoned her when she was just a baby so she lives with her grandmother. In school she gets teased alot about her looks and what not. i was one of the only few people who chose to be kind to her. she took advantage of that she calls me all the time...almost as if she has no one else. obsessively calls me like 14 times a day literally. for some reason she feels like she needs to lie to gain attention and worth. like....she told me she was graduating last year and she never showed up or appeared on the graduation list...and she told me she would be walking the night before. umm she has also lied about doing things/going places..she'll make things up. like someone got sick in her family and doesn't know if they'll be ok....i don't KNOW whether or not to believe her. it sucks because i don't want to get involved in all this if its just going to turn around and stab me in the back but at the same time i know she needs help.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

November 28, 2007 5:00 PM | Posted by B: | Reply

Certain Pathological Liars are FUNNY as Hell! If you know of one or two, don't take them seriously, Have FUN with them Folks.

Depending on the personality traits and characteristics of a Pathological Liar (aside from being a PL), I find that a PL can be extremely FUNNY and Entertaining with his or her outrageous LIES and Stories.

Our Family has known a Pathological Liar, (through a Friend) for over 2 decades and everytime he comes over to visit, we have a ball with him, laughing off all his hysterical LIES he says about himself, his lifestyles and other People.

Here are some of the highlights of his Lying Career: (Note: The following Lies were dissaproved, discounted, and/or He never came through with his promises and claims)

-"I have a Super Nintendo Entertainment System, and I have 250 games/cartridges for it" (notice at that time, the SNS barely came out, and supposedly he already had 250 games for it (60/70 Dollars a Pop)...thats well over $12,000 invested into an SNES LOL)

-"I am going to Give You My (entire) PAY CHECK so that you can go out shopping for yourself" (never happened)

-"I am going to come out with a new (rap) album next month" (album never comes out, at least from the realm of his own mind lol)

-"You know I'm the type of guy that'll come over to hang out with you guys, and slap $800 on the table and we'll go out and spend" (never happened)

-"You know I'm the type of guy that'll come over to hang out with you guys, and throw down several thousand and we'll go out and spend" (never happened)

-"I am going to buy you an (expensive) Gold Chain so that you can wear it" (never happened)

-"I'm coming out with a new album next month" (album never comes out, at least from the realm of his own mind lol) Note:This is not a repeat/typo, he literally says this everytime we see him, every other month, every six months, every year, He's coming out with a new album, and we never see/heard of his First!

-"I'm an A&R for Epic Records" (sure you are)

-"My boy I know produces for Diddy"

-"I wrote the Don Cartegena Album for Fat Joe" (now he's apparently writing albums for high-profile rap stars)

-"I just got back from touring (concerts)" (Zero evidence to prove that)

-"I benched 5,000LBS" (now for shits and giggles, we just made up a number and asked him "How many times did you bench 5,000lbs ? 20 Times ? (((hold the laugs))) and he answered "Yea...20 Repetitions" (((laughs)))

-"I have a Car, My car is down the block, behind that Van, back there in the Corner, behind that Light Post" (when he left, we saw him walking out of our apt building, and he walked over the opposite way and caught a CAB lol) (no car whatsoever)

-"I had sex with Foxy Brown (rapstar) in a closet" (Mr. Don Juan himself)

-"I'm going to buy you a brand new pair of Jordans ($150 Sneakers)" (Never even got to try them on)

-(in the Mid 90s) "Ima hook you up with a Job, giving out Flyers to people in the streets, and they pay $750 a Week, $750 Dollars for giving out flyers" (never heard about that job offer again)

-"Some guy tried to rob our jewelry store one day by grabbing merchandise of the counter, so I(250some odd pounds) grabbed a bat, Jumped over the counter, and cracked a would-be theif on the head with the bat, who tried to rob the jewelery store where I worked at. He ended up getting stitches on his head and 7 years in Jail on top of that" (((Laughs)))

-(((Pathological Liar stands around our apt, Eating highly fatening Little Debbie cakes...and he notices us giggling and looking at his large ass belly fat...and he looks at us and says)))...

..."The Doctor told me im supposed to eat, to lose weight, you guys laugh but I'm suppose to eat a lot to lose weight" (Lots of Junk Food as a Diet for an already obese person ??? LOL)

There were just so many lies about himself, and/or about money, women, etc, that I cannot even remember most at this point.

What makes it even more funny is that he will look at you straight in the eyes and lie his ass off, wihout any apparent smirks, just serious, and think that we actually believe him.

Sometimes, when he is in the middle of another Lie...We will throw in a few numbers to see if he agrees with it and runs with it...for example...

Pathological Liar says:

"I make good money, I make about...I make about (((looks up to the ceiling and thinks))) I make about..."

and I'll interject: "What ? $3,000 a week ?"

Pathological Liar says: "Yea Yea, $3,000"

I'll respond: "A WEEK ?"

PL Says: "Yeah, a Week"

another example:

PL Says: "I bench press about...I bench press about...(((thinks)))"

I'll interject: "about 2,000LBS right ?"

PL Says: "Yeah Yea, 2,000LBS" (and we ran him up to "admitt" and claim that he benches 5,000LBS...TWENTY TIMES!)

Simply hilarious and entertaining.

and there are many many more stories/lies he has told us that were too much to cope with (we exploded in laughter while trying to hide it/cover our faces).

Watch out however, as I found out that this Pathological Liar can be extremely unstable in terms of temper control (mainly if you Call Him Out On His Lies...serious no-no).

This pathological Liar seems so wrapped up in his own Lies, in his own world, that if you question him or his lies, He will attack you verbally, or even attempt to physically attack you (if he hasnt taken his meds that day).

So when I say "Have Fun" with a PL, please have fun Safely...Ask them Questions, bait them into saying more hilarious and outrageous Lies, BUT, do not challenge them or question them. They can be illogical and hostile at times (depending on the PL's cerebral issues).

Score: -1 (11 votes cast)

December 1, 2007 11:01 AM | Posted by Sonya: | Reply

My mother is married to a chronic and dangerous liar. He is my stepfather. He lies about everything! Seriously, everything. If my mom asks him to pick up peach ice cream from the store, he returns without it saying, they (the grocery store) didn't have any. Once we learned about this, we would always call the store in advance. The store would have just what she needed. Why does he do this to her? He's a sick puppy. His 1st wife died, was educated and independent. So is my mother. He has an inferior complex. Of course, no one knew until after the fact. All the uncertain mean-spirited baggage he held on to before has traveled with him in his new marriage. He lies so badly that he creates nonsense issues that make him look really stupid. Poor man-he always looks as if he is preparing a lie while eating or watching tv. What's wrong with people like that?

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

December 1, 2007 11:13 AM | Posted by sarah: | Reply

I know a nice lady who is married to a man we all thought was nice, too. He's not; he's a liar. He wants people to think he knows a lot about everything, and he does read a paper frequently. But news is not what he lies about. If my husband tells him about an incident he has experienced, he comes uup with something, too. But guess what? We now know how to make up things to see where he goes with it. Well, he lies, or will ask about something that happened 50 years ago, that he barely knows himself, just to have the group thinking that he is the man with the news. His children know he is a liar. They usually look away when he stumbles through one. He does not stutter until he prepares his lies. He is a joke. Most of his friends don't want to be around him. But they have so much fun making him tell the lies, that they leave laughing out loud. The friends call him the Liar's Club Dunce.

Score: -1 (3 votes cast)

December 1, 2007 11:17 AM | Posted by rhonda: | Reply

He is the liar of the town. I am sick and tired of Mr. B's lies. He lies just to LIE. Aren't people like this dangerous.

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

December 11, 2007 10:22 AM | Posted by Teh Bawla: | Reply

Mahn i stole so mcuh stuff u kids dont even no. I got me sum cash, some pops, i got a chevy escalade, sum sweet 19" inch blades and sum 18" monitors for my sit. yall cant touch mah sweet intel Xeon processorz dog.

Score: -3 (7 votes cast)

January 4, 2008 3:52 PM | Posted by L: | Reply

Do you ever learn to trust a liar after being "burned" by them? I want to trust, I love her, but she's told so many outright lies, hurtful ones (like being abused and molested and having a rape test and police involved!) I just can't seem to get past these lies and believe ANYTHING she says ..... is there any hope for her or me??

Score: 3 (3 votes cast)

January 16, 2008 8:01 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Very interesting. Makes me wonder where you get this from though. It's too "right" and detailed to be seen from far away. You must have experienced it in some way. Either that or you're a genius and a great judge of character, someone who probably needs to become the next Dr.Phil ;=)

Alone's response: let's all just agree that it's the latter...

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

January 28, 2008 3:40 PM | Posted by Christian LaBrecque: | Reply

I want to first point out that pathological lies are behavioral, it is not a disease. The reasons for such behaviors vary from person to person, but the important thing is that YOU CAN STOP. You have to want to, but it's possible. I lied like crazy for nearly the first 21 years of my life. I started when I was really young, maybe 6 or 7 and didn't stop until last year. And the wild thing...., I just turned it off. I think I started doing it when I realized I didn't have to tell the truth about embarassing things. I grew up in a working to middle class neighborhood, and learned from an early age that (believe it or not) being a poor kid from a broken home didn't win any popularity contests. I started lying about what my parents did for a living. "My dad's a fireman", in reality by father was a drug addict and untreated diabetic that my mother left a few years earlier for fear of her life and her children's, and my step father (whomI was talking about) was a short order cook, a mean drunk and wife and child abuser. Then I lied to people about why I would have a black eye, etc. Soon after I was spinning fantastic tales about an association of mine with a spy or police agency (details varied), the problem was, I was seven years old. and the lies continued. Without going too long, just know that I BLEW IT, with just about every friend, every girlfriend, and caused them all tremendous alienation and possible some behavioral problems by mere association. Anyone who wants to talk about any of this, particularly those who have been abused, my URL and E-mail are listed.

- Christian LaBrecque
chrstn_labrecque@yahoo.com

Score: 5 (5 votes cast)

February 3, 2008 7:56 PM | Posted by Observer: | Reply

I worked very briefly for a small newspaper publisher who told me so many outrageous lies it was hard to count them all. They mostly centered around his experiences that were (amazingly) similar to mine. I think he sold ads by conning people, and some ads he ran weren't even authorized by the "advertisers". Sometimes, he had the audacity to try to collect on these! Anyway, I asked him if I could file a W-2 instead of being an independent contractor, and he gave me a blank index card and told me to fill it out. He asked me how many dependents I would claim. It was obvious he intended to leave me with the impression that I'd filled out a W-2, hoping I'd forget the details later. His scams and lies were so transparent, they were funny. I would laugh with my husband about them many times. This man had highly developed verbal skills, and he told me he had attended some kind of prep school in Connecticut. I think he was from a higher socioeconomic background, given the fact he owned a home in a nice area. His lying was probably quite a handicap for him, though, and I wouldn't be surprised if he lived off some kind of trust fund. Maybe he collected SSI. He didn't seem very functional.

Score: 1 (3 votes cast)

March 10, 2008 12:44 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

A girl in my class in school is lying about having a friend, who doesnt exsit. Me & fellow class mates all think she is a pathological liar, but we don't know how to deal with it. Does anyone know how? Shes only 14.

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

March 24, 2008 2:26 PM | Posted by Olivier donald: | Reply

iv just found out my friend whom iv known for nearly a decade, has been lying to her closest friends, me being one of them, for at least 7 years. everything i knew about her, her whole person, is a lie. suddenly i dont knw her at all. she made up a whole person, mixed up peoples lives with this person, stirred trouble between friendships, made up ridiculous stories, from the smallest of things to huge things like having cancer. only recently has she been caught out big time in one of her latest lies and has accepted the fact that shes a pathological liar. but the thing is, she's still lying to me even now. it's so hard to be here for her when i'm so hurt and pissed off at her lies, but she's making it even harder by contuing to lie even now.
is it treatable? what the hell do i do??

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

March 30, 2008 12:45 AM | Posted by Maggie: | Reply

I lie constantly, but I'm not sure if I'm a pathological liar. The reason I lie isn't just because it's a habit, it's because lying is fun. It's a challenge for me, and I enjoy it. Lying is hard; you have to show the correct emotion, and make sure the person you are lying to never catches you. The more times I lie without getting caught, the more fun it is for me to lie.

Is this also a symptom of a pathological liar? Or something else?

Score: 5 (5 votes cast)

April 10, 2008 5:00 PM | Posted by Applecart: | Reply

I am a habitual liar. A horrible horrible person. Just recently, my lies have wrecked my entire friendship structure, destroyed my family's trust in me, and generally made me feel pretty damn sucidal. I keep on hurting those I love, and feel like I CAN'T STOP IT.

I am at a loss, and have looked here for help. I am tired of the effort it takes to maintain this whole structure of lie and counter lie, and it gains me nothing but heartache.

Help.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

April 19, 2008 8:18 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

WELLLLLLLLLLL I know this guy who pretends he uses toilet paper and goes into the bathroom just to poop and then wash it off in the shower. IT is really weird. he also showed us his appendix scar and said 50 cent shot him when he was 10 years old in Boston, yeah.. weird. he also pretends to get in a car accident every other week and then when hes done with that, his mom gets in car accidents. he got charged for rape and sexual harassment and then tried to lie to us to saying all this crap about his door being open, when we see it closed. he has about 5 girlfriends and a squirrel tail and gets caught with all of it and says they didnt see anything as the one girl watches the other girl make out with him.

Score: -4 (4 votes cast)

April 22, 2008 7:44 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I think I am a pathological liar. I have no idea why I do it, to make myself more interesting? I have very low self esteem, I think. You see, the main trouble is that I can hardly tell when I am lying. I know what things happened and what didn't, but I have no idea how I FEEL about things. A while ago I sat in the mirror talking to myself, but every time I said anything I had to follow it up by asking myself if I was just making all the feelings up. I know it makes no sense, and it drives me crazy. My lies are usually about horrible things. Rape, abuse, sexual promiscuity, in the past I've made up entire people and pretended I dated them or was dating them at the time. I don't even know why I'm doing THIS. Typing this here, right now. Is it for attention? I don't know. And if it is, why do I want your attention so badly? I don't even know you. Is this supposed to impress you?

I think that for some reason I have always wanted there to be something wrong with me. I've wanted an eating disorder or an even more fucked up childhood, I want a psychological disorder, even one with a bad stigma attached to it. Why? I HAVE NO IDEA. I honestly don't know what is wrong with me that I would want there to be something wrong with me. Sometimes I think that maybe I am just a horrible person who deserves nothing. Deep down I must realize it fully and so I just desperately search for some scapegoat that can't possible be MY fault, I was BORN this way, my parents ABUSED me until I got this way, my brain isn't producing enough of X chemical, it certainly is not my fault.

But it is, isn't it?

And the worst part is, I can only say it here, because if anyone found out I would lose everything and everyone.

I've considered going to a psychiatrist, but I worry I will just lie to them, too. And of course I'd believe, happily, anything they said was wrong with me just as long as it wasn't my fault.

I think I want to stop but I worry that then I will really know what kind of person I am. I am afraid that someday I will kill myself. Actually, I'm not sure if I really worry about that or if I just want people to think I do because I'm this mysterious, troubled person. Everything about me is a lie and I wish I could start my whole life over.

Score: 9 (9 votes cast)

May 5, 2008 11:40 PM | Posted by a: | Reply

latoya. kick him out if he still lives there or run very very fast in the opposite direction and find a new home. this guy is a loser and will only bring you down. definitely the pathological liar...lying for his own personal gain and violent too??? no. he must go. you will end up getting a restraining order which he will violate and end up in court over and over til he gets a stiff enough penalty or your dead...whichever comes first.

Score: -2 (2 votes cast)

May 10, 2008 10:29 AM | Posted by humpty dumpty's friend: | Reply

Up until I was in the seventh grade I had a serious problem with lying. Thank god someone at some point called me on my inconsistencies. I can still remember the moment, in the middle of a classroom(home-ec) on a bright sunny spring day.

I was not one of the popular kids. My father was overly strict and distrusted all of us kids. I thought my life was dull, so when my friends would talk about what was going on I just added my "stories" to theirs. When I got called on it, I realized that I had told so many lies to so many people, that I couldn't remember who I told what to and I was in a very uncomfortable spot. I wish I knew what made the light bulb go off for me at that moment and what led me to make the choice to try hard not to lie going forward.

I had no sense of who I was for a little while after I stopped lying. Luckily, I figured it out (it took a long time) and am so much happier. Here's the ironic thing...I now work with someone who tells incredible, fantastic stories, has been "caught" repeatedly by several people and still doesn't "get it". She truly still believes that people believe her, and I think on a certain level she believes her own stories.

Having been where I was as a teen, I see it as someone living in their head. I remember thinking about my stories after I told them. I didn't know what the story was going to be until it came out. Where the story went depended on how people responded. Later I would relive the story and how good I felt seeing peoples' responses and interest in my stories.

When I watch people at work with this person, no one confronts her. Everyone just goes along with her stories and even will ask questions as if it is a normal conversation. I had peripherally known this person for years and was not aware of her lying until I started to work with her. I felt like I had to try to "help" her, so I asked to talk to her one day and came clean about my past and steered the conversation towards a string of lies that she had told me and pointed this out to her. I guess I had hoped that she would be relieved to be able to fess up and know that someone understood, but instead I got another lie to explain the inconsistencies I had pointed out.

What made me that spring day in seventh grade, know that this was not how I wanted to live my life and make the commitment to not lying? What compelled her this day when I spoke to her to not even be able to recognize when someone was showing concern and being sincere to continue to feel the need to lie? It is very fascinating to me. It is also very frustrating. I am now 45 and she is 41 and I see what my life might have been. I am thankful every day that I interact with her that someone cared enough about me to face me about my lies and that I made the choice I did.

I guess I felt compelled to write this in the hope that just one person who is living the life of a pathologic liar recognize themself in it and make the same choice that I did over 30 years ago. I can see in this person that I work with how unhappy and sad my life would be if I had not been called on it and made a choice to stop. Also, just to say that if you are on the receiving end of an endless string of lies, don't play into it. Don't act like you are interested. Don't ask questions thinking that the person will realize that you know they are lying and change. It only reinforces the behavior and lets them tell more stories. If nothing else, ignor it, hard as it might be. The show needs an audience to continue. Don't be the audience.

Score: 3 (3 votes cast)

May 22, 2008 1:21 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I fell in love with a man who is a pathalogical liar. He and I have been together for nearly three years, and I know by now that nothing I can say or do will change him. He is a 50yr old man who cannot help himself but lie about everything. I know he loves me as best as he can possibly do but it's not the kind of love that a normal caring human being could feel. He is self oriented, all he cares about is himself in the end, and he doesn't care how many people's lives he crushes to get what he wants. The sad thing is, he is so smart, so talented, so sweet when he wants to be...But in the end the core of his being, which is to lie to get what he wants, is his ultimate down fall. He will forever live his life in torment because he has screwed with so many lives. He is unchangable as the the color of my eyes. He is will always be focused on himself, and he will always to seek to get what he wants. Sad but true. Run away from people like this. There is no point in trying to fix something that is broke and unfixable.

Score: 6 (6 votes cast)

May 28, 2008 8:50 PM | Posted by debra: | Reply

Gosh, I'm on here to find out how to deal with a pathological liar.
It's one thing to play along with it, like no big deal. But when I see my grandson learning this from his mother? It's got to stop.
He is picking up her ways on how to lie and he's only 9 years old.
His mom gets away with it, now he thinks he can act that way and get away with it.
And while they do this, it's like they're the smart ones and the rest of us are idiots. Idiots for allowing them to behave this way.
When I try to approach her on this subject of her lying, then she turns into this "poor me mode", and makes up another lie to get people angry at me. My hands are tied, and I give up on this matter. I just hate seeing my wonderful grandson , starting to behave like his mom.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

June 1, 2008 3:13 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

In reply to the comment made on Aprill 22, 2008:

You sound exactly like the person who is the reason I looked up this article. This person was a close friend who, over the course of several months, told me some pretty serious fabrications, everything from losing her virginity while drunk at a party, how that same guy stalked her (she actually called me once to say he had just shown up at her work and she was pretty sure he was following her), how she was molested by her sister's husband when she was six, how she was seeing a therapist, to how she took fourteen Tylenol and had her stomach pumped. She would even tell me, on several occasions, that she was suicidal.

However, I had a number of sources that told me she was a liar, so I took every "serious" thing she said with a grain of salt. After several months of lies, she finally admitted that she made everything up, and her reasons sound very similar to yours, as far as being insecure and having low self-esteem. What it came down to was that she needed to feel important to other people, needed to feel like she was cared about. In her head, she thought the only way to gain people's trust so that they would tell her their major, private problems was to tell them her own, so she made up her own serious problems. With this warped logic, she thought that the only way to gain people's trust was to lie to them.

She also told me that she always just wanted something to be wrong with her. What it all came down to was she wanted to feel loved, but it was crazy that she didn't feel that way in the first place. Aside from her lying problem, she's got a very normal life: she's got two loving parents, a beautiful home, she's smart, pretty, and talented in a number of areas, and she has plenty of friends. She was never abused as a child, nor has she witnessed, been a part of, or affected by any tragic event. She just wanted attention.

In all honesty, we're not as close as we used to be, but it's not because she lied. I made it my goal to get her to stop lying, and as far as I know, she has, and she's apologized to the people she's hurt with her lies. Ironically, we're not as close because, once she stopped lying, she turned to other kinds of attention-seeking behavior, like drinking to be "cool" and randomly hooking up with inappropriate guys and dating guys she doesn't care that much about just to fit in.

But back to you: The lying can stop. Even if you don't actually come clean about past lies, you don't have to tell any more. Just stop, and let others get to know you, see you for who you really are. You don't need lie to sound interesting or to feel like people care about you. Like I told me friend, you're not a horrible person, you just want to be cared for. It's not a lot to ask for, but it's easier to get when you're honest.

Score: 3 (3 votes cast)

June 16, 2008 8:09 PM | Posted by kathy: | Reply

I MET A VERY SMART, KIND MAN A YEAR AGO, HE IS A THERAPIST THAT WORKS WITH ME AT THE HOSPITAL . MY BROTHER COMMITED SUCIDE LAST YEAR, THAT'S HOW I MET HIM. HE TOLD ME HE WAS GOING THRU A BAD DIVORCE BECAUSE HE WANTED CHILDREN AND HIS WIFE DIDN'T. HE TOLD ME HE WANTED CHILDREN. THAT HE WENT TO A COLLEGE IN TEXAS,WHERE HIS PARENTS LIVED ON A HUGE RANCH. HE SAID HE SPENT TIME WITH THE HOMELESS KIDS IN ATLANTA, AND THAT ONE KID DIED OF CANCER WHILE HE SAT WITH HIM FOR DAYS. I FELL IN LOVE WITH HIM BECAUSE HE WAS SUCH A GOOD MAN. (I THOUGHT). I ALWAYS WONDERED WHY I COULD NEVER GO TO HIS HOUSE AND HE WOULD ONLY CALL ME WHEN WE WERE AT WORK. NEVER AT NIGHT . I FOUND OUT THROUGH A PHONE CALL I RECEIVED FROM HIS GIRLFRIEND (NOT WIFE) HE WAS NEVER MARRIED THAT HE LIVES WITH HER . HE HAS NEVER OWEND A HOUSE , HIS PARENTS ARE POOR AND LIVE DON'T LIVE IN TEXAS ON A RANCH. EVERYTHING HE EVER TOLD ME WAS A LIE. HE EVEN SAID HE HAD FIVE SISTERS!! I WOULD HEAR HIM TALK TO THEM ON THE PHONE FROM TIME TO TIME. WELL THEY DON'T EXIST EITHER. HE DOESN'T HAVE FIVE SISTERS. THIS IS SOOOO SCARY BECAUSE HE MAKES EVERYTHING SOUND SO BELIEVEABLE . TO MAKE A LONG STORY SHORT THE GIRLFRIEND TOOK HIM BACK. WE HAD BEEN SEEING EACHOTHER FOR ALMOST A YEAR. HE WOULD SPEND EVERY WEEKEND AT MY HOUSE . THE GIRLFRIEND SAID HE WOULD TELL HER HE WAS AT A TRAP SHOOTING CAMP OUT OF TOWN EVERY WEEKEND. IT IS VERY SAD TO ME TO KNOW THERE ARE THERAPIST WORKING WITH PEOPLE IN NEED FOR HELP WHO THEMSELVES ARE MESSED UP IN HEAD SO BADLY .

Score: 2 (4 votes cast)

June 29, 2008 1:37 PM | Posted by Beth: | Reply

My son is 19 and I believe a pathological liar. I am looking for help for him because I really believe that this problem is going to ruin his life. I cannot believe a word he says. He was going to a community college and just stopped going but continued to tell me he was going. I told him to apply for a job which he said he did and he never did. He lies to his girlfriend to his friends, even to his grandparents. Sometimes, like this article talks about,its about things that don't even matter. Like the other day, he told me he went to see this movie and he really liked it and I found out that the movie had not even come out yet. Also I heard him telling his friend a story about something that happened to me once and he made it be his experience down to the very detail.Why does he do it? Where can I get help for him?

Score: 2 (2 votes cast)

July 11, 2008 2:21 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I love the way you present the literature in understandable plain English.
I guess there is not hardcore name for big, fat, scumbag liars who lie to manipulate, steal, slander and gain power maliciously etc.

Scumbag liars is good. I suggest you put this forth as an idea. Then the rest of us actually have access to really helpful and important information ie. the victims of these liars.

Thanks again for the article. I was surprised that I was mistaken about pathological liars. They are gomers and the other, more maliscious ones are scumbags. Good to laugh at a subject that has just about disembowelled me in the past.

Bev

Score: -2 (2 votes cast)

July 22, 2008 10:48 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Scary. I was wondering why I had many weird-ass daydreams, or even my behavior and fantasy-like superiority complex.
Is there a cure?

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

July 22, 2008 11:53 PM | Posted by Rita: | Reply

About four months ago I found out that I had been in love with a pathological liar for 10 years. We've been married for seven years and are now getting a divorce. What's wrong with me that it took me ten years to figure it out.

He tells lies to get sympathy, money, drugs, out of trouble, into peoples lives, and sometimes for no apparent reason. We have two children and I believe that the only reason he spends time with them is because they make him feel good about himself. I worry about them when they are with him. A year ago our son was sick with a cold. My husband came home from work and saw this. Then he said that someone at work had a daughter that had meninghitis. At the time my husband had a pain medication addiction. We took our son straight to the emergency room. Apparently the only way to test for meninghitis is a lumbar puncture or spinal tap. My son endured two attempts at this before the doctor said that he should be transfered to a children's hospital. We got there and got him settled in his room and then my husband started telling the doctor about his pain from a car accident he had had two years earlier. The doctor said that he would write him a prescription. The next day our son had more blood drawn for tests. It was just a cold. Later I found out that he lied about the meninghitis, but I don't know for sure if it was all planned to get more pain medicine.

He also cheated on me with a woman that caught on to his lies much faster than I did. He told her that I had left him and the kids and that our son had cancer. Apparently she gave him money. She also has a son. Her son, it seems got attatched to him.

These are just the worst of the lies he has told. I was a naive person until all of this. I really didn't know that people like this were so numerous.

Should I be scared? What should I do?

Score: 2 (2 votes cast)

July 24, 2008 1:44 PM | Posted by Em: | Reply

Clearly you've met my ex-husband.

In all seriousness, thank you for the very interesting and entertaining read.

Score: 2 (2 votes cast)

July 30, 2008 9:08 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

A true pathological liar rarely gets caught... most of you or have experience people who are complusive liars. People who lie,but makes no damn sense. A pathological liar does not believe his or her own lies or has some scho fantasy disorder type bs listed. Its merely a person who can think quicker and more complex then a regular person. A person who can read people easliy. Someone who has a higher EQ, verbal IQ and maybe IQ in general. So this bs about you know someone etc etc and your tired of it, your just dealling with someone who makes up shit then tells you out of habit. Pathological liars don't realize at first that there going into a lie until they are in the middle of telling it or are done. They lack the remorse and feel little guilt if any from lieing because of the way their brains are designed, more white matter means the ability to think and reason better, less grey matter not feeling guilt for doing it.
There the exact opposite of an austic person who finds lieing practicly impossible. You know how i know all this... because ive been a pathological liar since i was 6 years old and im now 28... Im not known for this or ever have been known, course if i were accused Im so good with words being that i have a higher verbal IQ that id just get out of it. So you probably know a pathological liar just not the one you think is one.

Score: -4 (6 votes cast)

July 31, 2008 12:02 AM | Posted by Rita: | Reply

Why do all of the pathological liars that have posted comments on this site spell "lying" wrong? It's not lieing. It's strange. My soon to be ex-husband does it too.

Score: 6 (6 votes cast)

August 8, 2008 7:09 PM | Posted, in reply to Olyveoil's comment, by Angelbaby: | Reply

Yikes!! May want to read up on the Casey Anthony/Caylee Anthony case... Good Luck

Score: -1 (1 votes cast)

August 12, 2008 10:40 AM | Posted, in reply to Murphy's comment, by nic: | Reply

are you lying about this?

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

August 18, 2008 11:15 PM | Posted by Kristin: | Reply

True pathological liars don't usually get past me regardless. They may from time to time when they lie about things that seem a tad normal, but they get caught when they make mistakes in story lines, or lie about things that obviously most of them do, knowing certain people or stories that they change around because they are too impulsive to remember the last time they said this.

Just know you have to be more observant and remember they need you to buy into the bullshit, just tell them you think they are lying, I do always, later on they eventually would be honest. If you don't play their game they are forced to admit to their lies.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

August 29, 2008 12:23 AM | Posted by LoriE: | Reply

My daughter failed out of communtiy college, came home for Christmas, but didn't tell us until we got her grades in the mail. She had been telling us she was doing so well in Psychology that she had a B+ and didn't need to take the midterm.

She was on the rap dance team, the only white girl. Was getting a special outfit and hair done for the big competition at the teen nightclub, everyone was going to be there to see her dance. She saw some of these people there and told me all about it - never happened.

Stole all my gold jewelry, sold her computer (told us she'd given it to her boyfriend) was living with boyfriend for months, not a word from her, we were frantic, then she reappeared for Christmas - to get her presents no doubt.

Was home since Christmas - said she broke up with boyfriend, had me drop her off at a nearby apt. but didn't want me to watch her go in, finally admitted that she was seeing the old boyfriend again.

Took my gas card and let people fill up - they gave her the cash.

She is a beautiful girl, had learning disabilities in high school and I think she does a lot of this to make herself feel important. She is very verbal, surpised the teachers when they saw her test results, low iq.

She stole $300 out of my purse, we had changed the locks on our front door, office & bedroom to keep her out, I found she had a set of those keys. When I confronted her with the money theft, she moved out -- I believe she took the money for th esecurity deposit on an apt. with a friend - gosh, I'm actually relieved that she's gone, but wonder if I should warn the friend to watch her stuff!

She had numerous traffic tickets which she ignored, one day she called me to say they were towing my car away, turns out she's charged with a misdemeanor for driving with a suspended license. we had to get an attorney, she gave us $200, but now stole back $300. I'm really worried about her, twice she's been picked up by police for being in a bad part of town, they've called us to come get her, she looks younger than her age and all innocent.

Says she's doing fine at work, practically runs the store, can't help but wonder what they really think of her, but grateful that she has a job!

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

September 8, 2008 1:44 PM | Posted, in reply to Ben's comment, by Jennifer: | Reply

It was sad and funny at the same time to read your statements...all of them familiar. You are right, it can be pretty entertaining fun, but I am stuck in a relationship w/ one and I have developed very strong feelings for someone I constantly have to question. It hurts to find out he wasn't a "certified electrician" or all those times he called me on his "lunch hour" he didn't even have a job. Of course it makes me question everything he has ever said. Unfortunately his siblings lie often, too, but for some reason I can tell when they are. Robert is very good except for his alcohol/drug-induced moments where he tells me outlandish ones (for example: Told me that his dad shot himself in the head by accident and may be dead. I didn't believe him and the next day I learned that his dad hurt himself w/ a knife by accident.) I have learned of so many lies now and am still counting. Unfortunately, I am at a point where I don't know if I can live w/ that anymore.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

September 8, 2008 1:59 PM | Posted, in reply to Rita's comment, by Jennifer: | Reply

I feel for you, I really do. It's a horrible feeling to find out all the lies that your loved one told you and it makes you question everything. It makes you feel like a fool. It's very scary to me so I know where you're comin from. Robert has lied to get drugs before, too.

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

September 26, 2008 2:59 PM | Posted by Michael Shaw: | Reply

The reason I found this blog is because Casey Anthony's (you know...Where is Caylee?)lying has piqued my interest. This lying thing... Reading all these stories has been interesting. It's so amazing to me how people could live the life of a liar. The grey matter/white matter thing...low esteem...learned behavior from parents and friends etc. I've seen this in a step son I once had. His lying became so bad...he would lie to just to lie (also steal, cut school etc). Anything he said...just lies. He would lie and stick to his lies and if caught, he would only give in under extreme punishment. It got so you could not believe a word he said...not one! Finally because of his behavior I got a divorce...solely because of this kid...sad but true. I knew if things went on I'd eventually beat the crap out of him and lose my retirement.
It still amazes me about lying...I guess the only thing you can do is spot them and then disassociate with them. If they're an asset to know, then gain from that and then...move on/disassociate as much as possible...even if they are a relative!...also, never give them any money. And... they will probably try to continue to snow you...just walk off/hang up.
They might try to find a soft button in you...don't buy it! It's so sad that there are people like this.
So...check peoples stories...because there are liars out there...don't be naive. A friend once said "Believe 1/10 of what you hear and 1/2 of what you see" Hmmm maybe he's right.

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

October 5, 2008 7:48 AM | Posted by Abraham Stubenhaus: | Reply

Thank you so much for your refreshingly honest and open look at the narcissistic, manipulative, powerless (and therefore powerful wannabes) liars, who decided to live their fake, soap-opera lives in the deep dark depths of evil and falsehood.
I enjoyed reading much of what you accurately described!
Thank you again,
Abraham

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

November 16, 2008 11:03 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I've seen several posts here asking for advice on how to deal with a pathological liar. The reason why there's hasn't been much, if any replies on how to deal with them is because you CAN'T! Impossible!

My 19 yr old stepdaughter is someone whom I would definitely say is a pathological liar. Nearly every phrase she utters is just a complete, pointless lie. It's interfered in her life, my family life, not to mention her father's life (my husband). She's sucked us dry for every single penny of savings we have. She has a 7 month old baby girl, and she uses her baby as leverage with my husband so he'll dish out more money to her. Every person outside of the family she meets probably thinks we're monsters as she presents the entire family, including her siblings, as abusive and intolerant. NOT! She's been living with us since she was 9 and I damn well she wasn't abused, neglected or unloved. She definitely was. She's attractive and smart. And the most prolific liar I've ever met in my life.

There is absolutely no way to deal with habitual liars other than to walk away. Shrug off as much as you can and keep all contact to a minimum. Confronting them really doesn't do any good, as they'll continue to lie, or twist things around to such an extent that in the end, you'll be the one to feel like the crazy one. Or, they'll get verbally or physically abusive. There is no "dealing" with them.

In the end, I think that knowing her has made me a better person, though. I realise that all people lie "sometimes". I rarely, if ever even tell a white lie anymore. I can't stand the thought of lying after knowing her and the detrimental effects she's had on this entire family. And I'm also getting quite good at spotting other liars as well. Ok... I've learned enough from that girl. I wish I could just get her out of our lives now.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

November 16, 2008 11:05 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

After reading my typo's in my last post... it was meant to say she "definitely wasn't" in reference to abuse or neglect.

I was fired up as you can tell :P

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

November 26, 2008 3:18 AM | Posted by Tom: | Reply

Do not give money to a pathological liar EVER if you want to get it back.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

November 28, 2008 12:05 PM | Posted by Manda: | Reply

I am a Pathological Liar. I don't know why I do it, I just do. I recently hurt my family and my friends. I can lie on the spot without it even making perfect sense. But, it does make sense to me. I didn't even know I had a problem until recently. My mom confronted me about it, and I agree with her. I've done a lot of research on it but their really isn't anything to go on; as in how to help. I don't need to do it and people have told me to just 'stop' but it really is harder than that. I'm a pretty girl who has had lots of friends, without having to lie but I usually lose them once I start with the lies. I've had a good life and I really can't understand for the life of me why I would want it to seem like I didn't. I have now had it opened to me of what I am and how I'm affecting people, I need help. If anyone has any advice or websites please help.

Help please.

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

January 6, 2009 2:47 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Artists use lies to tell the truth…

…while politicians use them to cover the truth up.

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

January 12, 2009 10:39 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Well...I'm 19 years old and I was actually previously engaged to a pathological liar. We were together for a year and then he proposed to me. I was truly in love with this man and because of that it took a life altering experience with him for me to start seeing him for the liar that he was. He's completely destroyed my faith in love and relationships and I don't think that I can ever trust another man again like I trusted him. His lies were just soo...I really don't even know how to explain it actually. His life...well our life...turned into something like a movie plot or a action TV show, something like that. It was completely ridiculous and I don't even know how I was so blind the whole time. He walked right over me, dodging all kinds of bullets, making up stuff for not reason...creating groups of friends that he never had, illnesses that only old women would have, a career on the fast track (all while he's still in college??), crazy things regarding the military, FBI and CIA...

Most of these lies started fairly late in the relationship when he had already gained all of my trust. I'm having such a hard time coping with this and moving on....I don't know what I'm going to do. My advice to everyone else is to really make yourself notice the signs before this happens to you. Trust your instincts and your own mind.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

January 16, 2009 9:19 PM | Posted by anonymous: | Reply

I have been dating a man for about a year who said he lives in another state that is thousands of miles away. He was in my loction for business and was us here about twice a week. He wanted to form a relationship rather quickly which I found was a little odd but charmed me and I went for it full force. He had very extravagent stories to tell and seemed a little dangerous but I found it very exciting. This should have been a sign but I seem attracted to the wrong type of guys. The other sign was that every time we planned a vacation at his home, something would come up. About 10 months into the relationship I found out that he lived literally 16 miles from me with another woman. Very charming man who met my parents and we were all fooled. Everything was a lie. Even details that didn't even matter. After I found out, I ended it but he someone lied his way back into my arms. Once we were back together, the lies continued until I couldn't take it any more. Now, we have been apart for one week and he continues to call me. I just tell him that it's not just the fact that I can't trust his infidelties but I can't trust anything about him. He tell me that I am making a big mistake and I just say that I know because there is no sense in arguing with someone like this. He uses my work to contact me I have no way of avoiding his calls. I think he is a sociopath and only hope that things can calm down.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

January 24, 2009 9:59 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

is it genetic? i see one specific race that they're a pro to it. do they do it too to destroy somebody out of jealousy or insecurity?

Score: -2 (2 votes cast)

January 28, 2009 5:24 PM | Posted, in reply to JOHN HENRY SOULES's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Yeah man. Doesn't make you feel good though, ey? Suicide? Nah. It hurts too much!!

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

February 22, 2009 12:31 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Lindsey Carson: | Reply

It's funny how I feel exactly the way you do. I'm in major trouble right now, and I serisouly at the worst point in my life. I've lied to my best friends for over a year and now everyone is starting to doubt my lies. At first, I was shocked that these friends, who knew my pain and feeling throughout this whole thing, doubted me. But now I'm calming down a little and deciding on telling them the truth. I know there will be questions, and I will probably not answer them because I'll be too embarassed. Before this, I had decided to tell them and the others the truth, but still have this feeling that it was not a lie. I don't know what I'm doing. I think writing this out will help me understand myself and what really has been going on.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

March 12, 2009 10:06 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Liz: | Reply

I agree that some pathological liars will not be caught...it's impossible to know when they are lying. But there are subtle ways in which you know, usually they just twist the truth, they tell things or "forget" details of something but by doing so the truth is altered, so they tell you they haven't had sex in 3 weeks, for example, but they don't tell you they had sex that morning. When finally THEY tell the truth, you cannot find out by yourself, but they will tell you becuase they want to be punished or want to gain something by confusing the facts, they will say that when they said the past 3 weeks they did not count today.
Patholical liars are also sociopaths, and they can't stop the lie, it just comes out of their mouth. I lived with one for 3 yrs until he confessed on lying because he wanted out of the realtionship. I guess I was the lucky one. Even if it hurts at least I know he lied, and my suspicions where true...or was he lying when he confessed?
Who knows? but one of the versions of what he said, did, felt is a lie.
What to do? Run as fast as you can, you cannot help them, (no one can, they lie to their doctors too) and if you let them they'll confuse all senses out of you.
Liz

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

March 15, 2009 1:31 PM | Posted by Moshay McLean: | Reply

I am a liar and I can't help it. I Get others in serious trouble from lieing I need help.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

March 16, 2009 9:11 PM | Posted by Sonia: | Reply

I think u forgot about the part how they exaggerate a lot. Other than that its was excellent keep it up!

P.S. thanks for the info because for some reason while i was reading this it reminded me, how i always tell wacko stories that are unbelievable. At least thats what people are telling me.

Do u believe me? It's true!

Example: An 18 year-old girl was driving and she ended up flipping the car and got it set on fire, because of the gas, while she was in the car. And she survived with horrid burns.

It's TRUE, but nobody believes me, do u?

Score: -1 (1 votes cast)

March 26, 2009 1:46 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

hello

Score: -2 (2 votes cast)

March 28, 2009 4:12 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Can a pathological liar change is ways? An 85 year old man named pierre holds a resonisble teaching postistion in the JC in SOCAL. Lying is a way of life for him. He recently go caught in a web of lies and says he much no become monogamous. Is it possible for someone who is unable to trust others and truthful to then change? Just curious

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

April 16, 2009 4:46 AM | Posted by pen: | Reply

Dear all,
I've recently broken up with a woman who is a pathological liar. It is difficult to express how traumatized one feels by the experience. Letting someone into your life is such a wonderful experience and to find that it is based on a mirage is very painful. It is a form of violation. Unlike healthy people, they risk nothing when they have relationships because they don't expose who they really are.

The embarrassing thing is that I'm a trainee psychiatrist and didn't initially pick up on her subtle inconsistencies. One of the reasons I missed it was because she had friends supporting her who did not warn me of her problems. They seem to have problems themselves, otherwise they would not count her as a friend. I can forgive myself now for not seeing her for who she was, because it is normal and healthy to trust others. Thankfully I found out before any serious damage was done. She had only moved in with me very briefly but I was considering proposing and we even discussed having children.

There are many labels for these people including "pathological liars". An older term is psychopath. Currently the DSM classification label would be a personality disorder or factitious disorder or malingering. The personality disorders they most resemble include narcissistic, borderline or antisocial personality disorder. These conditions emerge in the context of severe emotional deprivation during early development. They learn to manipulate people around them to achieve their needs. They find it very difficult to show or get in touch with vulnerable aspects of themselves. This is because when they were vulnerable as children and infants, they were neglected. As a consequence they find it difficult to tolerate vulnerability in others and show little empathy or remorse for their behavior.

Treatment is dependent on whether the illness is distressing to these people. For some, long-term psychotherapy can be of use, but it tends not to work because it involves opening up in a truthful way to a psychotherapist. Because the deficit is one of truthfulness, they rarely improve. Some of the people who have told their stories here seem to have some insight into their condition and manage to simply stop what they are doing. I think this is the exception rather than the rule. Most of these people end up leaving a trail of destruction behind them or end up in the criminal justice system.

I have chosen to leave my partner because even if she confessed to all her lies I would eternally be looking over my shoulder. Such a relationship is asymmetrical, much like an parent-child relationship. It is not a mature attachment and for that reason I am leaving. I would be concerned if I wanted to stay because it would indicate that I was somehow trying to "save" her from herself. Only they can help themselves and perhaps loss of a relationship might motivate them to change.

Thanks to all for posting their experiences and to "Alone" for hosting this dialogue.

Score: 1 (3 votes cast)

April 16, 2009 6:09 AM | Posted, in reply to MissLynne's comment, by Jan: | Reply

I married a pathological liar. I am now divorcing him. He is a sociopath and has all the traits of the sociopath. He also has a Doctorate, has his own successful business and his well respected in his field of work.

How do I now beat this liar in court when he has the massive advantage of being able to lie without conscience. His latest Affidavit does not contain any truth at all. He has also threatened to tell Social Services I am a bad mum and threatened to get sole custody of our two children. He has made false allegations to the Police about me. Luckily I talk, and have not kept any of what has been happening to myself. I have amazing friends who have stood by me and are supporting me now. Social Services have made their assessment and so have the Police. The Police believe that I am a victim of domestic abuse. This was both upsetting and a massive relief to me.

I have a non-molestation/occupational order against him at the moment, but on 8th May he is taking it back to court to appeal. If he wins, he will be allowed back into the family home. He is manipulative and controlling and I have been through therapy and read self help books and I am starting to re-build my life.

Living with any kind of liar is very damaging to your health, I would expect that anyone who can lie so easily and without remorse also has other problems and disorders.

We once filled in a medical questionnaire on the internet, which I made him fill out truthfully and helped him with the answers. At the end of the questionnaire, the result was that anti-social personality disorder, which is another name for the sociopath. He agreed to see a psychiatrist but only if I agreed to stay with him. He said I had to stay with him because he had an illness.

In the past he has threatened suicide several times and gets very depressed and makes you feel sorry for him. The suicide threats never really worked on me but the tears always did. He would always apologise and promise things would improve and that he would change. I lived in hope for years that he would change and the life that he promised me would materialise. I always made excuses for how things were, the main one being stress of work.

He has had affairs right the way through the relationship. It wasn't until one stuck and became so obvious I could not longer deny it to myself that I challenged him, followed him and would not let it drop. That is when the lies became so obvious. He would lie on top of a lie. He didn't just lie about the affair, he lied compulsively about things that didn't even matter, and he was very convincing. So convincing that at times I thought it was me that was crazy. That is what these people do, even when the evidence is there and you know the truth, they will make you doubt it and believe their lies. Unless you are emotionally involved with this person you cannot appreciate how you can be taken in by them so easily.

Score: 2 (4 votes cast)

May 10, 2009 12:00 AM | Posted by Me: | Reply

So I have been reading all the comments here. I wanted to share my own experience. I -by your definition only- am a pathological liar. However I have never had an issue with it, like you mentioned, my lies are spontaneous and I believe them. I thought about them the other day and tried to write down all my 'ongoing' lies. It's funny, I have perfect memory of who I have told what lie. I also never 'look to the ceiling' when lying. I don't show any difference in body language or affect when lying. I am currently in school for my PsyD and spend most of my time interviewing and or researching anti-social personality disorders. As a result I am constantly around lying and my clients are highly adept at detecting lies, my peers are even trained in lie detection, none of them even suspect me of lying. (as a side note to the person mentioning multiple personality disorder, please be up to date on your info, there is no such disorder, it has been refined and reclassified as Dissociative Identity Disorder(DID) and is a rare condition that only a mental health professional can diagnosis correctly. They also wouldn't be liars, at least the core personality wouldn't be, as the core has no knowledge of the alters until they are told about them)
I think it is important to know that not all liars destroy their lives or the lives of those around them. My lies provide me nothing obvious, most are simple, such as if I am telling a story about a girl in a pink shirt, I might say it was a red shirt. The real reason I lie is do to a desire to remain untouchable. I have been hurt in life and therefore I am very careful who I tell what. I have different people in my life I trust with different things, but never all of it with just one of them. It's a defense mechanism that serves it's purpose well. Don't be fooled that defense mechanisms are destructive. They only are destructive when they become maladaptive.
-steps down off soapbox-

Score: -1 (3 votes cast)

May 28, 2009 2:43 AM | Posted by joe: | Reply

Like the last commenter, I am also a pathological liar. this article is dead on. but some of the commenters might be judging pathological liars a little too harshly. Like don't lend them money? These must be extreme cases. i guess maybe mine is less severe than other cases.

I have extremely good credit for my age, and I have paid everyone back that I have ever owed, as far as i know. I still make strong connections with friends, and people, but i guess because most of my lies are small lies, and they are used to try and build up relationships (kind of ironic) that i don't feel guilty about them. I guess what scares me the most is that if i ever did reveal it to some of my friends, how would anyone ever believe anything i said.

I am being careful now, not to lie to anyone, but its a part of me. i don't think about it. I will just be talking and insert several lies if i am not consciously thinking, do not lie. I don't literally believe my lies, but like the last paragraph said, i learn enough about a subject before spouting out a lie about it, and anyone that i know exceeds my intelligence in that subject, i wont reveal that lie to.

This is like some sort of disease, an ongoing battle, one that requires constant effort. don't feel bad for pathological liars, it is learned and practiced behavior, but don't go so far as to feel that we are without a soul.

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

July 24, 2009 12:22 AM | Posted, in reply to JOHN HENRY SOULES's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

You're the type of scum that is tortured and the torturer. People like you ruin lives and don't deserve to consume others in the malicious rollercoaster of your endless scams. You deserve to be exposed and removed from society, you will eventually meet the reciprocity of your own karma, and you will fall into the trap you've set for others.

Score: 1 (3 votes cast)

September 8, 2009 9:11 PM | Posted by Dana: | Reply

WOW.....just broke up with a "pathological" liar, or whatever he is. So many comments I have read hit the nail on the head: I do think this man believes his own stories, until caught. He told everyone at work last May that his mother died. Before that, it was his baby boy that was just born had died, and his 'lady friend' (another word for girlfriend) committed suicide, leaving behind two little ones that "no one else wanted, so I am adopting them myself"....all lies. I had just gotten a great job with a local college, just before the lay off where we had worked together, and before I could finish telling him about it, he also "had a new wonderful job/dream job"....also turned out to be a lie. He said he owned a timeshare in Park City, Utah. Lie. He said his children were at the house he was staying ALL summer long...(I had not a chance to get out there, was a bit away)...his friend's dad, which owns the place, said "He NEVER had any of his kids (from his two past wives) here at my house, NEVER!" This ex boyfriend also would be "talking to his kids" while on the phone with me....his "pretend kids" that were not really there. He really played out everything, actually talking to air, now I know. MIND blowing when you find out how someone had deceived you; I trusted him...sure, looking back, there were some tell-tail signs, but I was always willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. I was in love with his sense of humor, how he could talk about anything, and with ease. Lots of practice he must have had! He always talked about his deceased father (yes, he was actually dead), how 'grandeur' his father was; how he came into a room and commanded respect....the 'men around my father that worked for him...surrounded him, trusted each other" yadda yadda yadda....and this ex of mine always tried to make himself like his deal old dad...."I am surrounded by many good, trusted friends that work for me"....like he is some Mafia boss, or I should say a German mafia boss...something like that. He said he is Mormon...yadda yadda yadda......but not Morman....yadda yadda yadda. I could go on.

Some of the stories in this blog made me laugh...with some sadness to them, and how I don't feel 'stupid'...I am not the only one that got caught up in the lies and deception of someone I had trusted.

My question: How do I spot a problem person with this personality disorder in the future, before it gets ugly??? I guess I'd better trust my instincts...but do not want to be hardened by this Giant Ass Hole that has caused me problems.

Thanks for sharing, everyone....helpful insight. Thanks to the Doctors that have posted also. Very good article and posts.

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

September 8, 2009 10:36 PM | Posted, in reply to Dana's comment, by acute_mania: | Reply

Forgive me for sounding like a shrink, but from your description, it sounds like you suspected the whole time that he was full of shit, and for that reason were careful not to bring up subjects you thought he was lying about because you liked this guy, you were comfortable with the relationship, and you really didn't want things to get ugly.

If you in fact had no idea that he was full he shit, you'd be less careful about the subjects you brought up with him and his friends/colleagues/acquaintances. Inconsistencies would be popping up all over the place and you'd figure out that this guy was a real nutjob sooner rather than later.

So the way to go about this is to act totally gullible about whosever bullshit and talk about it very casually as opposed to walking on eggshells.

Score: 2 (2 votes cast)

September 19, 2009 7:55 PM | Posted, in reply to acute_mania's comment, by Dana: | Reply

Hell acute.....

You are pretty right on with the comment about me being 'careful' about the subjects I'd bring up! I do have to tell you, I actually heard children in the background while on conversations with him, when he was 'at home'...or out sometimes. YES...he really took the lies far. The kid's voices? Maybe he called when he was around children, I just don't know for sure. Several other people were fooled by him also, and who knows countless others from the past and will be taken in the future. It's just a bit easier now, looking back, how some of the lies fit/don't fit...the longer I have been away from this sicko, the more CLEAR other things that I recall, seem to fit his lying pattern. Hindsight I guess.

I did do a background check on him, and all the properties he had lived in, the cities he lived in, were right on the money, just not the time-share, but I was not sure if those show up since they are fractional ownership. I could be wrong. Same with family names, he was telling the truth about them. No criminal records came up...so I thought I was doing it 'right'. He lied about some pretty stupid stuff, as sounds like many that are sick like this do; some critical, some just plain stupid and no reason to lie. He obviously is a very insecure man, lives in lala land.

I am glad it was not a long relationship, just a couple of months. Whew. So remember, even criminal/real estate/credit background checks may still not tell all!!!

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

September 21, 2009 10:51 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Personally, I sometimes lie just to keep in practice.

Score: 1 (3 votes cast)

September 24, 2009 4:08 AM | Posted by Candie: | Reply

I am a pathological liar. I lie to my boyfriend for 1 and a half years. I lie that i graduate from a prestigious university. I lie that my sister has passed away. I lie that i work in a prestigious media station and earn a high pay. I lie that i once reside in hong kong. I lied that i have many friends. I lied that i have $20k in my bank account. I lied that i am learning driving to improve mself. I lied that i take up yoga classes. I lied that i take up english courses to improve my english. I lied my tone of voice and slang my english when i am with him, and only him. I lied that my real mother is my step mother. I lied about my weight. I lied and lied till the stage whereby i want to leave him. I am trapped in my own lies. I dont graduate from a good university, in fact, i am only a diploma holder. I dont have any sister that pass away. I have never reside in hong kong and i dont slang my english at all when im not with him. I dont have a single savings in my bank account. I have no job at all. My real mum is my real mum. I dont drive and i dont take up english classes at all. I do nothing for a living. just laying back and relaxing at home. I dont have a single friend at all. Sounds so pathetic. I am lonely and i am a pathological liar. But i dont know how to break the truth about myself to him. He claims that he loves me alot and does not want to lose me. I tried many attempts to want to break off with him. but he comes back crying to me and asking me to stay. i did. but my guilt is eating me up. but it is so hard for me to admit to it. i think even if i dont wish to admit to my lies, i MUST STOP IT. and I MUST LEAVE HIM. i want to be fair to him, so that he finds someone better. i am sorry.

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October 2, 2009 1:35 PM | Posted by CG: | Reply

Are you sure you aren't describing my Mother??? This is her to a tee. I just got the results of her psychological test -- and she actually LIED on the background information - work, family, etc.....
When she was in the hospital a few years ago, a doctor told me she has "white matter disease". I've told other doctors and nurses this, and they said they have never heard of it. The doctor that told me said she is unable to make financial decisions, etc. Isn't that the truth! Now she's in a different state - with a different sibling - putting us all through this crazy lying hell.

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October 17, 2009 6:40 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

so im new at this school . on my first day of school i met a guy (it was his first day)(i later find out it was just the first day in THAT class)who said he was from my hometown and we talked about it for some time he seamed like he knoew alot. About the schools the motocross are's even the skate parks. then the next week i found he was making it all up!i recall him telling me a few other things. how do i know if he's lying everything he says is realistic but for no reason at all!

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November 14, 2009 2:58 PM | Posted by sarah: | Reply

I dealt with one pathological liar in my past, my x-fiancé.
And I currently deal with my boyfriend (who I keep breaking up with because I can't take it).
My x-fiancé lied about big and small things. Much of his lying appeared to be about making himself appear "bigger" and "more important" in the World. It was sad that he didn't know he had vale just as he was.
The ultimate was telling me that he worked for a man who'd been a commander in Vietnam. My x's job was as a hired hit man who killed former U.S. soldiers who survived Vietnam by doing unspeakable deeds to the men under their own command. He also told a story of how he almost lost his foot, (again, in Vietnam) while going in after the war to set off unexploded bombs or something for EOD (explosives ordinance disposal.) Supposedly his foot got caught in a bear-like trap and he almost lost it. Such a colorful story. Turns out he almost lost his foot (which was true) trying to hang a tree swing for his kids in his x-wife's back yard many years earlier. Now THAT, the true story, would have been sweet and more than enough just as it was. He was able to get jobs lying. He worked as a mental health/therapist for, guess what, Vietnam vets, though he had no degree or license in counseling. This was years ago and I know he couldn't pass on by in that capacity on mere lies now.

My current situation involves my so-called boyfriend who I am trying to stay done with. His lies are not about being grandiose. And in fact, he is bothered by that type of lying. He lies about just about anything. I am not sure if he always knows he's lying, or if he only sometimes knows it.
He always adjusts the truth with each person he is with to say exactly what it is he believes that person wants to here.
There are lies I have confronted him on...and lies I am fully aware of that I just ignore. At this point I am beyond caring any more except in the ways he has been mad at me for calling him out on lies and he has tried to hurt me for it socially. An example of a lie: He's a pretty successful artist with a fan club following. Many women are in love with the artist and think they would love the man. So they send him pictures of themselves, flirt incessantly as does he, and many want to meet him in person, either with their own husbands just as genuine fans, or by themselves, hoping for more. Well, a while back one of these single-type women had a huge crush on the artist and wanted to meet him in person. Unknown to me at the time, he invited her to MY house to come pose for her portrait in person (I am 98% of the time the model for all the women's portraits). He did so behind my back and set it up while I was at work. I found out before the event and called him out on it., He had done the setting up on my own computer, idiot. Any way, he claimed it was nothing, and that the ONLY reason he did so was because I have an electric guitar that is just like the one the woman wanted in her portrait and he couldn't simply ask me if he could borrow my guitar for her portrait as I would have for sure said No he couldn't use it. Huh? I'm really not sure how this leads to inviting another woman to my home while I'm at work. Believe it or not, I have since met this woman, who apologized profusely and genuinely for her part in things. She really was just a crushed out fan who meant no ill, seriously. However, the artist/so-called boyfriend knew exactly what he was doing. (Oh, turns out he was un-attracted to her after-all.)
But lies also include things like tape-recording a phone conversation between me and my best friend, and when I saw a suspicious tape and asking him about it, (I had thought I heard him on the other line) telling me the tape had "girl bands" on it. I asked "what girl bands." "Oh, I don't remember." "But you always know the names of bands you record." I left the room, came back, the tape was missing. I asked about it. "What? What tape. There was never a tape. You are imagining things." Of course I found the imaginary tape, played it, and heard my phone conversation with my friend on it. Not only that, he confessed to playing it for his best friend and her boyfriend, but then claimed the tape quality was so bad they couldn't actually here the tape. Uh, I could here it fine. The conversation, btw, me crying after he had flown off the handle suddenly and called me a F-ing B. I didn't know why or where it came from so suddenly and angrily and it freaked me out.
Any way, sorry for the ramble. This is my first ever sharing about these things. I am glad to find a site that lets me know I am not alone.
A friend told me his lying is a part of his overall addictions, porn, nude pictures from female art clients, etc....and that unless he gets help he will never change.
He gets mad at me that I no longer believe pretty much anything he says, or that I consider he might be lying. He seems genuinely shocked, which makes me more confused. I tell him that at this point I assume most of what he says is a lie and that somewhere in those lies are kernals of truth but that I can't spend more precious life energy trying to sort these things out. I'm a full time grad student and working. He stays at home all day and does art and manipulates women on the internet to fall head over heals for him and think he's King of the Universe. In the mean-time, his best friend (x GF from many years ago) is his watch-dog bull dog who hates my guts and will defend him tooth and nail....I don't know if she doesn't know what a liar he is and has been completely conned by him, or if she doesn't care. But she spends her time making rude comments about me on the internet. I ignore her and them all and treat her like she doesn't exist, which seems to agitate her even more.)
Wow, I am so out of this "relationship," really.

Guess I just want to have a clue what kind of liar I have been dealing with all these years. Bottom line, he always has to come out looking good and right. I have to appear wrong and crazy. And when he tries to shmooze me back over, or any one else, he says exactly what it is he thinks the person wants to here.
The "right" answer isn't the truth...it's to figure out what you the individual wants him to say, and to say it.
Oh yeh, and lies are about small things too, like "Is that my cereal?" in his bowl. "No, it's mine." And I take a bite and it's clearly mine. "Oh, I thought it was mine."

And yeh, confronted about a lie he, either gets very angry, but often just smoothly changes the story so I must have just misunderstood, or changes what he had intended. But no matter, I am the bad guy, or the misinformed guy, or over-reacting as that's not what he meant or was going to do, etc...

What is the scariest thing to me is that his lying is seamless. I see no physical "tells." No odd-body movements, no voice quavering, nothing, that might indicate he's lying. And his tongue is quick. He can make his lies up ready to order on the spot in a flash without hesitation. I am sure he would pass any polygraph.

So, what kind of liar is begging for me to let him back into my den?

Thanks and sorry for the long post.

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

December 8, 2009 7:10 PM | Posted by Surek Prakash: | Reply

thinking is flawed here, sorry but i dont agree

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

January 11, 2010 12:18 AM | Posted by duronimo: | Reply

Ok I have been living with a liar be it pathologiacl or not. I am confused now. i had hiom nailed as a narsaccist personality disorder. What ever it is he kept me in the dark for years. I now am looking back daily and trying to work out why he so disrespected me to tell such crap. He uses death as a feature. His wife died of cancer...his baby died and was buried in a white coffin....his birth mother died giving birth and his Dad shot himself. Its all fantasy. However he also says that he broke his back in the USA and that he visited Thailand alone, he didnt he went with me. Yuk its nasty. he has lost a lot of friends here but has taken off cos it was all catching up with him. Now he has started on someoneone else, guaranteed.

Score: -1 (1 votes cast)

January 21, 2010 7:25 PM | Posted by Leanne Poole: | Reply

No - this is an etymology, and a deliberate one. If there were no concerning feature to "pathological" as a constellation of characteristics, there wouldn't have arisen the term. The fact that the etymology of "pathological" is being shifted to detract from the public safety issues that have arisen from the deliberate attempt at counter-social strategy consistent to pathological psychological 'disorders' and criminal states is in fact noticeable and will impact both judgement statements, sentencing and psychiatry in general. There has never been a 'layman's term' for "pathological" other than "significantly advanced in deviant strategy", whether it describes lying, sexuality, business practices, racial bias, or any other aspect of personal social conduct. Hopefully this pathologically-motivated fudging will be exposed as the carefully groomed ass-covering 'correction' it is. Correction: pathological lying, and any other pathological behaviour is ALWAYS cause for examinations in terms, let alone societal monitoring, before 'grave' loses its impact, buddy.

Score: 2 (2 votes cast)

February 10, 2010 8:46 AM | Posted by anonymous: | Reply

I have had a very close friend since the age of 13 until the age of 26 who was a pathalogical liar. She has ruined the lives of 5 men (that I know of), behind their backs after sleeping with them and then going up to their best friends telling them she was raped by that friend. At the moment she is dating one of the men who she claimed has raped him. These all became clear two years ago when a common friend of ours (with whom she claimed to have a special sexual relationship for years) that we communicate once or twice a year called me up and asked me why she was being so weird to him on the phone when he called to chat or why I wasn't being as pissed off when he called out of the blue after a while. I told him that their relationship had a sexual bond, maybe that was why she was expecting more attention from him. HE HAD NO IDEA what I was talking about. They had never slept together, they were just friends as me and him were. She is harmful, really harmful to her friends and she is destroying all the relationships she has happening around her. She has turned a lot of common friends against me. She is calling up people she knew long ago who I met recently (I have no idea how she got that info) and telling them horrible things about me.
Confronting her is not a solution. I just want her to disappear from my life completely. Therefore at the moment I am running away from most of our common friends, and 13 years living in the same big city produces a lot of common friends.
It has never been harder to trust people.

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

February 22, 2010 1:04 PM | Posted by Lara: | Reply

I tell u one think all poeple that lies should die for i am getting tired of lieing to i just cant go threw this i cant is there anyone that as to go threw what i have to go threw its they tell me something and it dont happen

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

March 27, 2010 2:05 AM | Posted by obzerv: | Reply

I was recently conned by a pathological liar. He was my neighbor. He came to me with some story about a "family emergency" and that he was going to lose his kids. He asked to borrow money. The guy had tears in his eyes and I foolishly trusted him so I lent it to him. Within the first few days afterward I started getting suspicious because he would get caught up in his own lies. For example he would be overly nice and tell me he had a tennis racket in his apartment and that we should play sometime, and the next day he said he had to go out and buy a tennis racket so we could play. I confronted him and said I thought he had one, and then he said it was old. I asked his mom later and she said he didn't have one. This is just one example of the countless lies this guy told straight to my face. He left town and has come up with ridiculous lies for why he hasn't payed me back, from a late plane (even though he never came anyway) to a car crash. Whenever I confront him with his lies he immediately starts talking about something else. I talked to his mom and it turns out he stole from her as well, including her jewelry, flat screen tv, and her car. His mom burst into tears and told me she was going crazy and felt like she was living in a fantasy world because she didn't know what was real anymore because of her son. He also conned another neighbor in taking 300 dollars with a promise to refurnish his home, it never happened. I believe pathological liars suffer from some sort of other mental disorder usually.

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May 6, 2010 11:27 PM | Posted, in reply to JOHN HENRY SOULES's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

WHAT THE FUCK!!! You are freaking terrible!!!! I can't believe you would even have the balls to call yourself a MAN!!! phuuuuuu!!!!

Score: 0 (2 votes cast)

May 21, 2010 3:46 PM | Posted by TIFFANY: | Reply

I AM THE BEST OF THE BEST WHEN IT COMES TO LYING! I AM A HORRIBLE PERSON, BUT I ALSO LOVE IT. I HAVE TOLD SO MANY EXTREMENY BIG LIES, A NORMAL PERSON WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO LIVE WITH THEIRSELVES. I HAVE LIED TO PEOPLE THAT YOU SHOULDN'T LIE TO, LIKE THE PRIEST AT MY CHURCH. I SOMETIMES THINK THAT I MIGHT BE THE SON OF SATAN. I HAVE NEVER BEEN CAUGHT IN ANY OF MY LIES. SO ALL OF YOU THAT THINK THAT LYING IS FUN AND WORTH IT, YOU ARE RIGHT! DON'T YOU JUST LOVE GETTING WHAT YOU WANT, WITHOUT OTHER PEOPLE KNOWING HOW YOU GOT IT. I'M SO HAPPY I WAS BORN WITH THIS DISORDER, I NEVER WANT TO GET HELP!

Score: -6 (6 votes cast)

May 31, 2010 7:19 PM | Posted by SHANE: | Reply

After reading this (among other articles about pathological lying) I'm pretty I am one. Why? I cannot think of a person off the top of my head that I haven't lied to. All of my friends, even those that I've had since elementary school (I am in high school), are under the impression that I live an entirely different life. I have told them all that I have Borderline Personality Disorder, and I make up random crap about having to take hormones and having 'episodes' because of it. In reality, from what I know about BPD, neither of those factors is actually involved. Also, all of my friends think that I used to be apart of an entirely fictious group of friends located in Poway. When asked, "What did you do over the weekend?", I would reply with some sort of glorious annecdote about these people. I was always consitent with names and personalities for these characters. Also, I told even my best friend that I was dating around, even though that isn't true at all. I even programmed my phone so that when I texted myself, it would appear as if a different name texted me. (Also for the BPD thing, I did research about the different hormones so that I could experience side effects the next day.)

I do believe this article was correct in saying that pathological liars have no idea what is going to come out of their mouth before they say it. I don't remember how either lie orginated or with whom, but I have constructed an entire reality that all my friends believe. They think I'm this personality-disease-stricken lothario with a thriving social life. In reality, my only friends are them.

I am excellent with the actual practice of lieing. I know what I've told who...and I can see why the adjective 'manipulative' is used. My motivation most likely lays in the fact that I want to appear experienced socially/romantically, even though recently I got my first ever girlfriend (a senior, bitch!). We broke up but my less-than-truthful tendancies had nothing to do with it. My motivation for lieing about having BPD is probably a plea for attention, an excuse to act eccentric, and/or a reason for me not to be responsible for my behavior.

So...this is the first time I've ever really acknowledged any of this. I assure everyone that I realize that I'm not this person that I've fashioned myself to be in the eyes of my friends. Is this because I'm afraid of rejection? I don't know. Either way, I'm at a crossroads: I refuse to 'come out' as a pathological liar. However, I could lie about some cure for BPD (I have already staged a scenario as to why my 'other friends' no longer talk to me) and dig myself out of that.

Yet who's to say another lie about my very lifestyle itself won't take its place?

I want to see a specialist to determine if I am indeed a pathological liar, although --having written this whole thing out-- it seems pretty hard to deny. I think it will be intriguing to meet someone and not lie AT ALL to them. We'll see if I can do it, lol. As previously mentioned, I really don't think about it. I think of this person I want to be seen as and I construct it for each knew acquaintance without thinking. It's not that I believe myself to be this person...perhaps I just WISH I was and I know that I could SELL it if I had to.

Advice or comments for me? ^^;

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

August 7, 2010 11:12 AM | Posted by rachel: | Reply

i want to share that i went from being a pathological liar for most of my life to being a very honest person so there IS hope for pathological liars. what turned me around (to make me become an honset person) is i grew up and i finally realized about morals and consequences. i started to believe in the words of Jesus and that i cannot lie and get away with it because there will be consequences. believe me the consequences have been terrible, all the shame i feel for lying it never leaves me. i started pathological lying as a child because i was bullied and ignored and i wanted attention so desperatly. our parents did not do a good job teaching us about morals and consequences so i resorted to lying to getting the attention i craved. even tho i lied for attention i still didn't get much. as a teenager i became very ill and have been very ill for years and the doctors do not know what exactly is wrong. so i would tell lies to my friends about what illness i had because i wanted to lie about it rather than tell them that the doctors don't know. like the article stated i grew up telling many, many pointless lies and it was just the way i was accustomed to living. i lied about things that there is no purpose to lie about. so in summary here are some things that seriously contributed to my years of pathological lying....poor parenting with a lack of clear instruction about morals and consequences, severe lack of attention, being ostracized and bullied (my schoolmates didn't like me so i try to lie to make people like me). its been about 3 years now that i've been living a clean (honest) life and i like the honest life better but the shame and humiliation of the lies i've told will haunt me till i die.

Score: -2 (4 votes cast)

August 23, 2010 9:56 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

there is a list of bullies who are pathological liars and used me for a target for a long time.. One fillipino girl is seriously in need for mental help and I recently found out after cutting my self off from them they are still trying to make connections with me, by for one harrassing my family members. I am scared. We are taking police action. All of them are really dangerous and all of them need a restraining order, there sociopaths!! This filipino girl which the only relationship i have with her is to just work with her tried to be me for months!!! stalked me at school. She and other bullies on that list told me what I was doing everyday to my face and I am traumitized!!!

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

September 22, 2010 11:04 AM | Posted by Cody: | Reply

I had thought I had narcissism my entire life, and I may still have it. But my main problem has always been with lying. I've broken down my lies into different categories of lies which I don't consider 'lies'. Well over the last few months I've gotten caught in many of these and stopped certain categories, but now I've addressed the fact that I've broken down my lies into different types of lies, and then I stopped and admitted to lying, which despite the friction that has caused, it was the right thing to do.

It's petty shit too. I'm looking over the first few paragraphs. "Believes he's a CIA agent" oh you have no idea how many times I've basically thought I was survivor man and believed it. I'm no survivor man, I'm little more than a college student. Hell I lied and said I texted someone, which nobody cared if I texted this person or not, but I said I did when I didn't. It makes no sense why one would create this, and put the burden of the lies on others, it makes no sense why I did it, and may still do it.

Score: 0 (0 votes cast)

October 25, 2010 8:36 PM | Posted, in reply to JOHN HENRY SOULES's comment, by Kay: | Reply

My boyfriend is like that...it hurts us more to know that you guys lie. We just don't want to hurt you because we actually care about you.

Score: -1 (1 votes cast)

December 17, 2010 11:25 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYV1QC2Xj6w

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

January 25, 2011 2:26 PM | Posted by Kelsey: | Reply

My sister, who is 17, is a pathological liar. It is terrifying how easy it is for her to lie about the most ridiculous things. She'll steal food or clothing from others in the house, and lie about it, claiming she saw others take them or it was an accident that they ended up in her possession.

She has lied about gruesome things as well. My family found letters and diaries full of claims of physical and sexual abuse from my father and brother, and physical abuse from my mother. She fell down the stairs when she was 2 from reaching for a toy and split her head open, and she wrote an entire paper when she was a sophomore about how I had actually pushed her down the stairs. She has lied about being raped. She has lied about having sexual relations with men and women. She has lied about being friends with nonexistant people. She has lied about dating people that she never did. She even wrote a letter to her best friend (at the time) about how she was moving across the country as her dying friend, who was suffering from cancer, Ana's last wish. There never was such a person.

Every time she is confronted about a lie, she becomes verbally and physically abusive. She dislocated my father's pinky, and he is a big guy and not easy to harm. She has left my mother, 13-year old sister, and I covered in bruises.

She needs mental help, but no one will do anything about it because they are all too stubborn and self-righteous to believe that anything is seriously wrong.

Score: 3 (3 votes cast)

February 7, 2011 5:52 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

we assume pathological liars are men?

i have been living with a pathological liar for a few yrs.

she is also a narcissist, arrogant, delusional, paranoid,
aggressive, a crybaby, a constant complainer, and the other
60-70 percent of time, either laughing with her friends or sleeping...

because she was not born and raised in america, i assumed her problems were cultural.....

whatever, she treats me, the one who lives with her, like a servant, slave, criminal or cheater, doing horrific things behind her back, secretively, which she can never ever prove, because of course, they only happened in her paranoid twisted self serving imagination....

realizing she would lie at any moment to anyone took some time to discover. now, i know as long as she is not busted or thrown in jail, she will keep lying to people, and making up conspiracies plotted against her, because she is the living saint of womanhood....

pathological liars do it to overcome their fear of the truth, and because it has worked for them in advancing their interests, and because they have had a traumatizing life experience somewhere in their past that justifies using other people as they see fit to advance their goals as they define them.....

not to fear a pathological liar is typical because they usually distance themselves from most people who have no use for their games, and hence never see their entire life pattern.....

but the few that get to know them eventually learn the dark truth of how shallow and self absorbed they are......

i have tried to warn her of the dangers lurking for her if she continues being a dishonest person......i will be far away when she finally hits rock bottom. sadly, i will no longer care what happens to her. i have already become numb to her nihilistic posture.....

i will say this: she is lucky she is good looking.......and has a great smile......it fools lots of people most of the time.....

Score: -1 (3 votes cast)

March 11, 2011 12:32 AM | Posted, in reply to JOHN HENRY SOULES's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

IS THIS A SARCASTIC JOKE, OR ARE YOU SERIOUS?

Score: -1 (1 votes cast)

March 13, 2011 6:45 PM | Posted by Gina: | Reply

Pathos should be shot or shoot themselves. I know it sounds mean, but I have dealt with two and I can take no more. They will ruin your life just for loving them (no good deed goes unpunished). I don't so much have a problem with them lying, but they suck on other people like leeches. The will rather pull you down to their sewer than let you go. They will keep feeding and sucking you dry. When you wake up you need a blood transfusion. Gosh

Score: -1 (3 votes cast)

March 17, 2011 10:56 PM | Posted, in reply to LoriE's comment, by mara: | Reply

Totally understand the Pathologial child situation, my son is 27 now, he lies where the true would serve better. He lied about going to college, said he was graduating and all the family gathered to watch him graduate. The day of graduation we finally found out he did even go and had dropped out a long time ago. He would even tell us about the class, let us know he was taking mid=terms etc etc, teachers names, talked about class mates I was destroyed, he had soaked me for thousands of dollars. And he had lied before about other things but this was over the top and so detailed that now I know he is just crazy and cruel. I kept thinking there was some good there and wanted to help him, but after these years and all of his lie, I have finally grown numb to him and have to protect myself from his sick world of lies. The said thing is he's charming and good looking, so he is just going to destroy some nice young girls life. He never wants me to meet his girl friends, because I think he is scared that putting two people together will out him and his lies. He's gone through a few nice girls and I think he tells them lies and uses them for money. If I do ever have the opportunity, I will warn the girls he's with. He can barely hold on to his drivers liscenses and has had them suspended more than once. He was diagniosed as ADD/ADHD in the 3rd grade and I have really tried to help him with medication and therapy through out the years. There is no drug or alcohol abuse....I sometimes with there were so at least there would be some reason for this sad behavior. I want to blame something else for his action, but it is just who he has chosen to be. I feel like I have wasted so much time and love for him and have nothing in return. Who is he? Writing on this web site is my committment to myself to move on and let him go. Like a few of the other writers, they say you have to decide the way you will let the pathological liar be involved in your life. I don't choose to have hard feelings for him because that would take to much energy. I just don't feel anything for him anymore. It's just so very very sad. I don't even know who he really is. I just know him as a liar and a destroyer of relationships.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

March 23, 2011 2:18 AM | Posted, in reply to MissLynne's comment, by Jessica: | Reply

I could use some advice on this. My son's father is a pathalogical lier. It's hard to prove anything...cause they will just lie about it!

Score: -1 (1 votes cast)

March 23, 2011 10:27 AM | Posted by Jackie: | Reply

Years ago, I became good friends with a group of young people in our large office. One of the women was a pathological liar, although it took us ages to figure it out.

She once took months off work -- she had very serious gyno. problems that resulted in a hysterectomy at the age of 21, and she was so ill that she didn't want visitors. Or so she said. We were all so sorry for her -- what a tragedy. Except it wasn't true, and she had kids later.

One time she had a party at her house, and her pocketbook went missing, or so she said. She actually accused one of us of stealing this item, and called the cops on to press charges, when the "missing" item, was really in her closet.
That was when we bailed on this liar.

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April 30, 2011 3:21 AM | Posted by NameUndisclosed: | Reply

the common theme:
"what will make me worth something? money, a house, a car, fame, a record deal, talents? if i don't have these things, i look bad."
for each individual liar, there is typically a common theme among their lies and what they lie about.

liars lie to people who either are already close to them [like family] or people they want close to them [like potential friends and love interests] and/or people in positions of authority over them [legal, medical, or academic authorities, employers, parents, etc. -- sometimes even their peers. in any case this authority can come out like the concerned mother or the my-way-mister father, but both are asking for appeasement.]

liars lie about themselves, their past, present, or expected future situation and/or people in their situation as they see it.

liars lie for gain. gain can be anything from attention, sympathy, or other things all the way to material wealth and real power in the greater world. it can be to impress or to make things easier for themselves. [there may be other reasons as well, but these are the most common.]

how to respond:
first thing--if you suspect or have even confirmed that someone is lying or has a habit of lying, DO NOT SEEK ANY FURTHER INFORMATION FROM THEM. this means don't ask them questions. this may seem logical and obvious, but it can be quite hard to keep in mind in practice. or at least do your best to avoid asking them questions as doing so only affords them yet another opportunity to feed you another lie.

don't confront them. typically, all you want or need to know is if they are, in fact, lying so that you might disregard whatever they are saying.

keep a small journal to help you sus out the liar's common theme. assuming there is one, this will help you find what it is and may even give you some insight as to why they are lying and why to you.

consider whether their lies, any of them, have any real effect on you [other than annoyance].
if they do, tell them to put up or shut up [i.e. prove what they are claiming and if they can't, then they have no right to be a nuissance to you]

bait them--see if you can get them to make outrageous claims and then have yourself a nice belly-laugh. this is particularly good when you exploit their lack of knowledge about the subject they are talking about.

and if they really insist on making you the person they want to tell lies to, then send them a bill for use of your time--they'll get the message even if you don't get the money

if you can, just cut off from them completely [some people cannot i.e. family ties, business ties, etc.]. you basically gain nothing from having people who lie among the people you associate with in your life.

both liars and their victims attribute a kind of power to lying--that it can do "real damage". this is no doubt true in cases where for instance people go to jail because of it, but that is not what i'm talking about here.
there is this drama-queen aspect to it. it's like the liar is saying "i am cursed to wield this great destructive power. please save me and others from ME!"
sometimes they lie out of sheer boredom; it creates the drama. my advice here is for "victims" to not play the victim; if no real damage has been done other than hard feelings and just a sense of indignation. instead, refer back to the "baiting them" section and make them a joke. you will feel much better and more empowered this way and not a hurt and angry victim.

sometimes they lie because they would rather not discuss their private matters or just things they otherwise don't feel comfortable saying or are ashamed to say but are asked to and not seeing the option to just say that, they lie instead. if there are people who are genuinely sincere in that they don't really want to be liars but they feel like sometimes they just have no other choice, they can be made aware of their right to keep their private matters private and that there is a thousand ways to tell the truth.

and lastly, lying done about a person to a third-party can be a serious offense, but i would categorize that myself under gossip and so haven't included it in the response except to say only that slander is a legally punishable offense; pursue it if you feel justly entitled.

Score: 2 (2 votes cast)

May 10, 2011 2:56 PM | Posted by childrenourfuture: | Reply

At what age is lying a problem? I have just found out that my relative who is about 3.5 years old lies to everybody about being physically abused. It is so bad that any time his Mom, Dad, Granny or anybody do or say something he does not like (for example, "go to bed"; "enough treats") he threatens to tell that they abuse him. In public place, he responds with loud "you are hurting me!" and he told "My Mommy hurt me!" to a policewoman at the mall. "Granny beat me!" - to his Dad. He also lies that he feels sick when it's time to go to the kindergarten if he does not feel like it. Is it just a phase, or are we growing the future sociopath here? What should we do?

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May 11, 2011 9:34 AM | Posted, in reply to childrenourfuture's comment, by Jackie: | Reply

If I worked at that kindergarten, I would not want that kid in my charge -- people have spent years in jail because of accusations that turned out to be false later on.

If this were my child, I would ask his pediatrician for the name of a good child psychologist as soon as possible. And I would look at how the family responds when he acts out. Does he get the treats? Did mom take him to McDonald's at the mall after the policewoman got involved? Are there any negative consequences for him when he acts this way?

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May 15, 2011 12:49 PM | Posted by DG: | Reply

"Alone's response: yes. Decide to stop. Pathological liars fill the void of their identity with words. If the words stop, then the identity is uncovered and subjected to scrutiny. You have to be brave enough to withstand that scrutiny.

This is probably one of the most insightful things I've read on here. Would have sucked if I missed it.

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May 15, 2011 5:55 PM | Posted by linlin: | Reply

i am divorcing my pathological alcoholic liar husband. i cannot tell you the outrageous ridiculous lies he expects us to believe. the most recent one being my daughter calling him asking why he didn't call her on mothers day. he told her that he did call and offered to buy her a new phone.
another one was when he asked if i had fun on a getaway to SF while we were still on good terms, I said no because of his drinking. I don't drink at all, but he told me "you had a bloody mary it's on the room service bill" my jaw dropped because we didn't order room service and i haven't drank one drop of alcohol for two years because i don't want to be a hipocrite. i wonder, if they really believe their own lies and are delusional?

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

June 21, 2011 10:45 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I am a pathological liar. It has never caused me any real problems until the last year. I have lost all of my closest friends who now want nothing to do with me. I really am doing my best to stop sitting around all day and thinking of BS to tell people to help my pitiful ego. I never want to hurt anyone and I don't feel I have any control over the crap that comes out of my mouth. I now have to start my life over and do my best to be honest, but i dont know how im going to stop lying. I have a therapy appointment as i finally have hit rock bottom and know that i need help. Doing my research i think that my pathological lying is linked to BPO borderline personality disorder. There is a lot of conflicting information out there so any advice is greatly appreciated.

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June 22, 2011 4:09 PM | Posted, in reply to JOHN HENRY SOULES's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

WOW, Im on here because I just came to the conclusion that the guy I was completely in love with is a pathological liar and just doing some research. Everyone listens to everything he says and seems like the best guy around. and I dont know if confronting him will make him flip out. Who knows, you could be him!! LOL.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

June 26, 2011 12:02 PM | Posted, in reply to JOHN HENRY SOULES's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

how very sad for that woman who loves you but has no idea who or what you really are. I hope she finds out and dumps your butt.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

June 26, 2011 12:04 PM | Posted, in reply to latoya's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

RUN in the opposite direction!!!!!!!!! For your own sanity, get out of that painful relationship NOW

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

July 10, 2011 9:23 PM | Posted by JR: | Reply

I had a personal experience with a PATHOLOGICAL liar. An ex-wife. It took me almost 5 months to finally realize...that nearly everything she SAID was a LIE! She told me she had a double-degree from a Texas University (I later learned she only "attended" that university). When we had financial problems and could no longer afford our $500k home, she alone went to the mortgage company and "talked them into taking it back" to sell it themselves - we were never foreclosed on...UNBELIEVEABLE. I think sometimes, she really BELIEVED her own LIES! I think you could wire here up to a dozen lie detector machines and ask her if she was BORN ON THE PLANET MARS? And she'd answer YES and I guarantee she'd pass every one of those tests! She wouldn't know the TRUTH if it ran over he like a BUS! A few months after our divorce, I lay in bed one night (going over as many conversations I had with her) asking myself...was ANYTHING she said, the TRUTH??? I realized more than 90% was NOT! I'm curious though...in watching the CASEY ANTHONY trial, some medical experts mentioned that a PATHOLOGICAL LIAR is NOT "mentally ill".....REALLY??? Could have fooled ME!

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July 10, 2011 9:23 PM | Posted by JR: | Reply

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July 30, 2011 3:01 PM | Posted, in reply to SHANE's comment, by jasmine: | Reply

did you say you were in high school. i you seem pretty smart for a teenager. maybe you are lying about that? so have you ever met a liar such as yourself. do you think you could spot one? if so, would you be able to have a relationship of any sort with a liar? are you capable of feeling for another person? were you ever neglected or abused as a child. i ask these questions because of my own experiences with a pathological liar, and the excuses i have given him. i do believe that if someone truly wants to be normal, they can. but are you unhappy, or is this just a habit and you just don't feel any guilt, remorse or loneliness from the breakup of friendships?

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

August 12, 2011 6:04 AM | Posted by Kay: | Reply

The question is, how do we stop them? The study about the increase of white matter in the brain, is it for pathological liars or people who lie frequently? Does that mean if we lie frequently, the white matter in our prefrontal cortex will increase greatly? Or are people born with this condition?

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

August 26, 2011 11:01 PM | Posted, in reply to latoya's comment, by lalalafreeeee: | Reply

RUN! RUN! I am not kidding. You will regret staying. You will be put through sheer hell. There is no having a relationship with a liar. It will nearly destroy you from the inside out. There is no excuse for his lies and you will NEVER get the truth from him. Let go and make room for somebody good in your life.

Score: 1 (1 votes cast)

August 31, 2011 7:46 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

i think i may be a pathological liar. i don't know why i do it, i guess for the attention. i told very gruesome lies to my best friend years ago; spewing out garbage about illnesses and deaths. i didn't realize i was even lying until after the words came out of my mouth. ever since i was little i've made up stories. i always exaggerate things, and sometimes till little anecdotes just to sound interesting. but it got out of hand when i was younger and now that i'm almost 20 i feel trapped.

i've become so guilty that i've become unable to sleep. i lay awake and hyperventilate, scared that those closest to me will leave. i've taken to cutting myself and have become very suicidal. i don't know what to do. i wish that i could take everything back; wish i could start over.

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September 28, 2011 5:04 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by bystander: | Reply

Hey my sister is a pathological liar. She lies about going to work, what she's doing, who she is with. Everything and anything. She has been doing this for years! Last year, her lies got really bad and she started fabricating stories and involving so many people into her web. We had to call the police because she started going to this cult-like church. We thought she was brainwashed, but after a while (although they too were crazy) it was her crazzineess that was too much! We dealt with lies on a dialy basis and that time felt like pure torture. It's been almost a year, and she still continues to lie. Although, we went through that big episode. She still hasn't changed. Is there anything we can do as a family???? When it's so easy! to tell the truth she still would rather lie. And she still makes up these fake random sensless stories to tell us (stories that relate to nothing, just mundane stories about so and so..)

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October 12, 2011 8:08 PM | Posted by At the end of my rope: | Reply

My story is like so many of the ones posted here. My GF of 4 years is a borderline-pathological liar. I can't say how many times I have caught her in lies and she just manipulates her way out of the entire situation and then proceeds to act like nothing happened. Its frustrating, stressful, I can't even count the ways in which it affects me, and her....well its no big deal. The ironic thing is that she seems get off scott free all the time. No one else will rat her out or question her. At first she is so charming, but no one ever realizes that she is lying to them. I could go on and on and on about her deceitfulness, but I would be writing the biography of our relationship. The BIG lies come in bouts like every 6 months or 12 months, but not at any point does she ever take responsibility for her actions, words, lies anything. And on top of it all she turns every situation around and blames it on me. Good thing I know not to let it make me feel like the inadequate one. I still have my self esteem. The only things I am guilty of is having too big of a heart to want to help her (which is impossible) and for staying with her as long as I have. She will never change or face her demons. I can't help, I've tried, believe me I have tried and there is nothing I can do. What I have to accept is that I can't help her and its been very hard for me to do. This last time she has been lying is probably gonna be the last time it happens, its the last straw for me. She is txting and hanging out with someone whom according to her doesn't even exist for her and is lying to that person not telling them that she is in a relationship and lives with me. On the other hand she tells me that she loves me and wants to be with me and yada yada yada thats what I hear coming out of her mouth these days. Well that poor person doesn't know what is in store for them if they continue with her. And the reason I know all of this is going on is that my GF works with one of my good friends and they hang out all the time after work. My GF seems to trust my friend enough to tell HER the truth but lie to me. Well my friend is loyal to me and she has been telling me everything that is going on. Not only that, but I see the signs the behavior, everything that happens when she is lying, especially about someone whom she is interested in fooling around with. She can dig her own hole and fall into it. This time I won't be following her nor will I be there to pick her up when she falls, because she will fall. At some point her lies will come out and be staring at her right in her face and she will have no place to go. Its very sad and depressing, but I can no longer live my life with someone who so easily lies to me, disrespects me and manipulates me to get what she wants. I hope the best for her, but I will be taking myself out of this situation as soon as possible. Love does not oonquer all...
Wheew that was cathartic.

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October 13, 2011 7:35 PM | Posted, in reply to Morgan's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Where was this? Do you remember his name? I know someone that has done that before...

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November 14, 2011 1:18 PM | Posted by Nena: | Reply

There is not one single person who has to deal with PL. You deserve way better. No PL has the right to complain, because the way they feel every now and than (yes emotions are just shut off) is nothing compared to how used and abused others feel.
To PL who want to stop; just stop. if you want something bad enough you will find a way to get it. When it comes to manipulating someone, nothing stops you; why? Because that is what you want. Same goes for stopping this childish behavior. Adults confront their demons, children run away.It is such annoying behavior it makes people sick, and the lying to cover other lies. I imagine those annoying loudmouth kids in the supermarkets. You just want to slap them, but you can't cause they are not yours. So make the decision to grow up.Just grow up PLEEEAAAASSSSSEEEE. Don't one up others, but ask how they got it and work just as hard to get yours than when you talk about yours it will be the truth.

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November 17, 2011 3:17 PM | Posted, in reply to At the end of my rope's comment, by i'm done too: | Reply

I feel for you. You could be me. I have been living with my BF for 4 years. He has "big lies" about every 6 months or so, and "little" ones so much I can't even count. He has moved off the "trying to have affairs with other people" to lying about work. 2 times, he has been "going to work" when he actually didn't have a job. I pay for everything, including when his children are over. Hell, I pay for him to pick them up from the ex-wife!

My issue has always been that it seems to me that I can see the "real" person in there. He is always very apologetic when he gets caught. Very sad, like he has hit rock bottom. But then, within 6 months, something else will have happened.

A actually kicked him out in May, asked him back in June. Without him was my worst month ever. I have lost about 50% of my hair from stress. Problem is, there are certain things that are fine...like, when he is in the house, doing stuff, like cleaning or making dinner or whatever, that is all fine. It seems like anything "outside" in the "real world" he is incapable of doing. Making routine phone calls, dropping movies back at the rental center....he will tell me he did it (he says this is because he feels bad that I am working and he is just sitting home with plenty of time to do it). Then, when I see the charge of $12 on my bank account for the overdue charges, I ask....did you "just" return that movie? Why didn't you just tell me 2 weeks ago about it, I would have stopped home and grabbed it. NO BIG WOOP! Right? Just stupid stuff.

I have appreciated both sides to the stories presented here....what I would LOVE TO FIND, is an equally useful site with the "HOW TO ADDRESS" or "WHAT TO DO".....part. I don't believe that my boyfriend actually WANTS to be this PL. He has had his share of obstacles (or so he's said) with his upbringing...which I now question, like everything else he says. But.....I love him. He has said he wants to get better, to stop lying. I would love to see that. He has never intentionally hurt me (I don't think)...but his lack of respect for the relationship and me personally is getting really hard. It's like he is a little kid, he opens his mouth, crap comes out, and he can't admit that it's crap. This last straw, he has been unemployed for awhile after being in a MASS layoff. (I know this to be true, it was covered in the news). HE has never really recovered from this....he is interviewing (so I am told) all over the place. And he thought he had a job....but, it ended up they gave it to someone else, so he "went to work" for 2 weeks because (he says) he was too ashamed to tell me he didn't get that job. I would not have CARED one BIT! I mean, it's frustrating, but....I'll get over it. Give me a little credit!

Holy cow....I can't believe I am hitting submit. I have hid these things from my family for years....I recently told them when I was kicking him out....of all the bad things....now of course they hate him. UG. What a mess.

I reminds me of the Simpsons episode when Marge and Homer go to the marriage retreat, and Homer goes out fishing for the big fish (when he told Marge he wouldn't)...and she is left sitting alone at the session, telling of all the things Homer has done that either hurt her or annoyed her...and she is going on and on well into the dark of night.

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November 19, 2011 2:20 PM | Posted by Belinda: | Reply

please i need help, my son lies so much, who's his with. what he is doing. i've found drugs in his room he makes drugs. he lies about his friends and about going to work. about school and i have noticed he believes his lies. i'm going on 52 years old. i've taken him for help i dont know what to do any more. sometimes i get so scared i lock my bed room door when i go to sleep. what kind of lier is this? please help.

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November 23, 2011 4:06 AM | Posted, in reply to At the end of my rope's comment, by Steffi: | Reply

It’s amazing! I could have written every word in “At the end of my rope” and in the reply! I know EXACTLY how you feel. The difference is that my 78-yr old mother is the Pathological Liar (PL), but I don’t have the option to disassociate myself from her, like you can with a friend. She also exhibits all the signs of Passive Aggressive Personality Disorder (“PAPD” – Wikipedia or Google it). She also has a big “issue” with ANY form of authority. When my long-suffering father (who was the target of her abuse all their married life) couldn’t take it any longer, he moved out (divorced and remarried). My mom is the last of her family still alive, and she has alienated everyone who befriended her over the years. As I’m an only-child (no husband/partner or kids) I have no one to turn to for help (aunts, uncles, siblings, etc). My dad won’t help, as he has washed his hands of her (and me). As I supported her during their divorce, he maintains that I’ve made my own bed – I must now sleep in it. My mom has NO income, so I’m her sole support, and so I’m forced to live with her (I can’t support 2 separate households on my income). All my life she has exaggerated, but we always accepted “that’s just how she is”. I now realize that it wasn’t exaggeration – it was outright PL! When dad moved out, he told me “She’ll start on you next”. I didn’t believe him. One of the signs of PAPD is a resistance to authority. Dad was the authority in the household – that’s why he was the target of her abuse. Now he’s gone, I’m the target. Dad was right – I WAS “next”. She lies about the stupidest of things. Never anything important or consequential. She NEVER goes out of our house voluntarily, but (on the odd occasion when she has to) and she meets someone, she brags to them of all the things she’s done/achieved in her life (when she’s actually done nothing!), and what she’s still planning to do (“but there’s only 24 hours in a day”). And they are SO impressed. And I stand there, cringing with embarrassment, because she then calls on me to “verify” her lies. Recently, I got home from work. She was livid, claiming that “those rotten neighbors stole the water bowl [for the wild birds in the garden] just 5 minutes ago – I saw them do it. They walked right past me!” Suspecting just another lie, I went straight outside to see for myself. And there was the bowl, untouched! I told her “It's still there”. With a poker face, she replied “They brought it back before you came home!” HIGHLY UNLIKELY – they would have to scale our 6’ boundary wall with a ladder, and climb over an electric fence – 4 times! She hides keys and then says dad took them – but he moved on with his life 14 yrs ago, and never came back. Or she blames her (dead) elder brother and sister for taking her (and my) things – yet SHE takes and hides them. I suspect she blames them because these 3 people (my dad and her elder siblings) were “figures of authority” in her life. She never blames her younger (dead) siblings, who were no threat to her. As she has PAPD, she won’t take decisions. So I have to. And now I've become the “figure of authority” in her life. And I’m now the target – she hits me, slams doors in my face, blames me for everything (even incidents that SHE has invented – like claiming that I “threw the puppy outside in the cold” when we don’t even own a puppy), she throws temper tantrums that would make a 6-yr old look childish (how I wish I could give her a good tanning on her bare bottom!), she gives me the “silent treatment” when I don’t give her her own way, threatens to call the police to arrest me (like for the “puppy in the cold” incident), etc, etc, etc. Last year she actually did call the police to arrest my dad (claiming that he was threatening her with a gun – which he doesn’t even own!). When the police came, she said he had “got scared and run away” and she “didn’t know where he had gone” (convenient!). I could go on and on giving examples of her craziness – but they look so pathetic. I look pathetic. I’ve tried to get help for her. But my friends don’t believe me, as she is so manipulative and puts on her “such a sweet-innocent-little-old-lady-with-big-eyes” act, and they tell me how NICE she is, and how LUCKY I am to have such a WONDERFUL mother, and they wish their mothers were like that. Yeah – right! If only they listened to me! I’ve told doctors (plural – she’s been through 10 doctors in 8 years. I think she dumps them when they become aware of her mental problem), but none are prepared to help (1 told me in 1999 that she has “mental problems” but until she approached him for help, he could do nothing. And, of course, there's NOTHING wrong with her!!!). My own doctor advised me to see a psychiatrist to get advice on how to handle her. Big waste of money! The psychiatrist said SHE must come in for therapy. Ha! Ha! There’s more chance of my walking on water! So I just live every moment of every day on tenterhooks and on the verge of bursting into tears. My job is my sanctuary – I just wish I could spend 24/7, 356 days/year there – I DREAD going home every night, to face the woman. The only thing that keeps me going is knowing that she will probably die before I do, and then I’ll be free to live my life normally. I’m SO desperately unhappy, knowing that I can NEVER get away from her, and knowing that I have wasted my 50-odd years of life with her. Sorry that this comment is so long, but there’s just so much to say.

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January 4, 2012 2:34 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by George Arnold: | Reply

I hate every psychiatrist, and I find that there is absolutely nothing wrong with people who will fire bomb mental institutions that are run by the State government!

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January 15, 2012 5:21 AM | Posted by Freddy pratt: | Reply

OMG! I'm glad to know that I'm not the only 1 suffering with this. myx ex boyfriend lies so much that it cramps my stomach. and he tells lies that can't possibly be true. like he just bought a brand new truck, how in the world is he going to produce that? he tells lies that he knows he will get what in. and then he argues when I call him on them. and when I said that I would leave him he said that he was going to kill me. he pretended to have brain cancer. pretended that his son died. pretended that he was picking his mother up from virginia on thanksgiving from virginia while I waited in baltimore when is the whole time he was sitting in front of his house. I didn't believe that story and I went to his house( he didn't know that I knew where he lives) that's when I found out that that s o b had a wife... or at least she thought she was his wife turns out that when he married her he was already married! I talk to her, I feel very sorry for her she said spent 8 years with this loser and she doesn't even know that she's not married to him! he lies to everybody about everything. he told me he had a bmw,a a nice house and a boat. turns out he doesn't even have a pot to piss in or a window to throw it out of which didn't really matter to me because I own my own home and 2 cars. even the car that I always saw him driving didn't belong to him it belong to the woman who thinks she is his wife. I just hope that she realizes that she's not married to him soon. lies so much that he told me that he is 6 foot 1 inch tall when he is clearly 5 foot 10 inches tall... he fake being in a motorcycle club, fakes being a mason, and fake being a gang member,...

so many of the stories sound just like him. he is such a big liar that he told me that he is 6 ft call when he is clearly

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February 3, 2012 11:51 PM | Posted by mykundecided: | Reply

hi, i and my girlfriend living together for 1 yr. i discovered that my gf always lie even on small things. its very hard for her to admit all her lies. at the end of our argument, she admits all her lies. she told me that lies just came up w/o any reason. i love my gf, but her lies breaks us apart. what should i do? right now im really confuse to continue my relationship w/ her. she told me before she will be honest to me at the first time i discovered that she lied to much. and still she does not change. pls give me advice....

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March 7, 2012 11:05 PM | Posted by compulsive liar: | Reply

When someone lies about even the smallest things then this is the trait of a pathological liar and should seek help. Take everything they say with a grain of salt. Not too upset or patronise them, just don't take all that they say as gospel.

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March 8, 2012 5:27 AM | Posted, in reply to Steffi's comment, by Katy: | Reply

Trust me, her death will not magically free you. After she dies, you will never again have the opportunity to set the tone of your relationship with her. She will have the last word, and you will resent this until the end of your own life.

Leave now, while you still have the chance to do it on your own terms. Otherwise, life will continue to be something that just happens to you rather than something you actively control.

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March 8, 2012 9:38 AM | Posted, in reply to Steffi's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Maybe you could talk to Adult Protective Services, tell them you are unhappy, ask if they have any ideas. I hate nursing homes, but it is at least possible there might be a decent one around, (I've seen a few nice ones on the news) and it is also possible she might find some more happiness on her own, she'd be around people her own age...nursing homes usually have what is called an ombudsman, they are advocates for the elderly that live there, you could also speak with an ombudsman or a social worker, it would be the right thing to not just mention her behavior, but how stressed you are feeling. Another thing, it sounds as if she does not get Medicare (?) but if she was married, not everyone knows she get get more Medicare based on that, or state Medicaid to pay for an alternative living arrangement, nursing homes and even group homes if there are any, can get paid that way. Nursing homes have financial advisors who work with this all the time. Sometimes there are Senior Centers to get her out of the house, where she can socialize and eat lunch and play cards, etc. Often there are pretty high quality and they would get her out of your hair for a bit. AARP is always a perfect resource as well.

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March 8, 2012 10:21 AM | Posted, in reply to pen's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

"I'm a trainee psychiatrist..."
Really. How far along?

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March 8, 2012 10:41 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Someone wrote in talking about her male friend and how he lies about his height.
Every man who has ever mentioned his height to me was lying. In some cases it was super obvious too. The only exception I can think of is for guys who are super tall.
The same is true of penis size---and I don't lead them into having to lie by talking about it first, even.
I have observed that if I find a way of mentioning that I prefer guys around my own height or prefer guys who do not have a huge dick size, they cut it out. It is kind of tricky to mention of course---this is not an easy, classy comment to drop---but a drink helps.
Maybe the question isn't who lies and who does not, but rather that we all lie sometimes, and what it is one lies about, then what it is one does not lie about.
Incidentally, I really do prefer guys close to my height with an average dick.

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March 8, 2012 9:36 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Are you kidding me? This is ridiculous. The author sounds like a moron and everyone who commented afterwards sounds like a moron! Well in my eyes, anyway. You're making a big deal out of the fact that pathological liars are despicable and pathetic and retarded and annoying and evil people and immoral and just not right but if you would open your eyes WAY past your shallow perspective and realized what is right in front of you, all this suddenly wouldn't matter to you anymore! Everything is immoral and not right! You're government isn't right, your society isn't right, the system that raised you for 13 years in school isn't right, why concentrate on the OBVIOUS, it's obvious that lying is immoral but its HUMAN and EVERY single one of you has something just as bad. You are all conformist and fascists and you're criticizing a pathological liar who clearly has no control of what comes out of their god damn mouths?? You guys are the ones who are immoral, feeding off of them. What? Are you going to complain about how your schizophrenic girlfriend swears she's always seeing something??!! Damn. I understand the honesty is a number one must for some people and if there is a dishonest pathological liar then avoid them, but don't talk so much crap about them.

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March 8, 2012 9:43 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

"What? Are you going to complain about how your schizophrenic girlfriend swears she's always seeing something??!!"

That is a pretty good line.

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March 8, 2012 9:47 PM | Posted, in reply to MissLynne's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Sweet heart, she isn't a pathological liar, she's delusional. There is a difference.

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March 8, 2012 9:48 PM | Posted, in reply to MissLynne's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

and being delusional comes directly with schizophrenia so maybe you're right about that observation

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March 10, 2012 10:14 PM | Posted by Theodora: | Reply

Oh dear. And what if said boyfriend IS a pathological liar and not just a jerk?

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May 11, 2012 9:04 AM | Posted, in reply to MissLynne's comment, by Beth: | Reply

Yes, on the family court question. I now have permanent legal custody of my cousin's son. The child had been placed in emergency custody due to exposure to Meth. We requested a psychiatric evaluation be done and it was court ordered. She was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder and some form of antisocial disorder. Pathological lying and narcisistic thoughts and behaviors were mentioned in the evaluation. In court, she agreed to the permanent placement ....in my opinion, because it made her "look like" she cared about the child...Now, remember, she had him in a meth cooking house and the drug was found in his hair. Does this sound like someone who truly cares about their child?
The problem with a child that has been raised by a borderline person is they learn manipulation from birth....everything is conditional. They use feelings as a weapon against others. It has been an exhausting ordeal. I immediately took the child to mental health to make sure he uses correct social patterns now and unlearn everything she has taught him.
Good luck!
You might try to get some court ordered evaluations on her and the children. If you can prove by diagnosis that she is causing the children harm, you might have a chance to get them to a more appropriate environment.

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The Last Psychiatrist

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Pathological Liars

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