February 1, 2012

What Would You Do If Your Fiance Gave You a Ring That Wasn't Good Enough?

Jessica-Biel-Justin-Timberlake-Engaged-Us-Weekly.jpg

lawyers are standing by




(Part 1 here)



Oh my God, what's he doing...

"Will you marry me?"

You cover your mouth with your hands. In a microsecond you saw the ring wasn't...

But in this moment you have to follow the script.  Action.




INT. RESTAURANT - DINNERTIME.

GUY on one knee.  GIRL looks shocked.

GIRL:
Oh my God.  I can't believe you did this.

[The silence goes on a bit too long.  He widens his eyes as a prompt, subtly motioning to the people watching them.]

GIRL:
Yes!

Around them people in the restaurant clap, say congratulations. Some men smirk knowingly.

GUY gets up off his knee, they kiss.  He sits back down.

GIRL:
It's so beautiful.  It's so clear. [She holds it towards the light.] How many karats is it?  Is it 4?

GUY (off screen):
No, it's only 3.

GIRL:
Wow, it looks so much bigger.  How much did this cost you?  How did you afford it?

END SCENE




Like any woman wracked by self-doubt, when it feels like a scene you feel compelled to follow the script. No means no, but yes is what it says on the page.  Hence yes to the boss's extra work; yes to letting your friend vent on the phone even though you're late; yes to being in a threesome because your boyfriend wanted to.

But later, when you're done shooting for the day and you have a chance to be yourself, you finally say,  "I don't want you to take this the wrong way... I really love it... but.... I was kind of hoping for something a little... bigger...."

I.

Cue penis jokes.  "She looks down and says, 'I was hoping for something bigger.'"  But you wouldn't have said anything if he wasn't walking around like God's gift to women.  "Come on, baby, let's get out of here..."    Arrogant prick, if this is what's supporting your bragging then your BMW probably means you're living with your parents.  Wait-- whose house is this?

III. 

I was listening to Cosmo Radio-- research-- and the host, Lea, was of the mindset that a ring is a symbol of what a guy thinks of you, and it's okay for the woman to tell him she wanted something bigger.  Patrick disagreed: "it means she's a vapid bitch." I'm paraphrasing.  So Lea compromised:  "maybe he could get her a pair of earrings, too.  Would that be acceptable?" I'm quoting.  And Patrick, the co-host, said absolutely, great.

Of course she didn't mean that.  If she thinks that the ring is a symbol of what a guy thinks of her, then the small ring is what he thinks of you.  Upgrading the ring after the fact won't upgrade his feelings towards you.  Which is the problem.  Which means Lea took a hypothetical boyfriend who doesn't yet exist and was already covering for him, already making excuses for not getting what she wants.  For settling.  For him not loving her.  Rather than committing to her own maxim-- it's a symbol of love-- she downplays it, letting him off the hook to maintain the appearance that all is well.

Lea was right, he should get her a pair of earrings as well.  But not because he doesn't love you, but because you don't.

IV.


Her co-host, Patrick, was vocal about just how much of a bitch such a hypothetical woman is, and linked it to the story of Jessica Biel rejecting Justin Timberlake's ring.  His insight was that because Justin had been a voracious cheater in the past, Jessica has him by the balls.  The ring isn't a just a symbol of love, but restitution.  He didn't say it, but I will: Kobe.

I get that there are cheap and jerky guys out there, the point here is not a critique of the man's logic, the point here is the woman's.

Jessica sounds like she's has Justin whipped-- snap!-- and he has to do whatever she wants to get her back, using his guilt to dominate him.  As if anyone ever feels guilt anymore.  Boy oh boy could that not be more wrong.  Prove to me you love me, says HypoJethica.  Prove to me you think I'm worth it.  If it sounds bitchy you aren't listening: you prove to me I'm worth it. Give me something you don't give the other girls, can't give the other girls.   You, who can get any girl he wants, make me know how valuable I am.  Because I don't have any idea, otherwise I wouldn't be shaking you down for a bigger ring and I certainly wouldn't be trying to get you back.

"Jessica Biel?  Doubts her worth?  Are you insane?  She can get any guy she wants!"  No she can't, she wants Justin.  And he's like, "meh.  See you Wednesdays."  Oh, HELL NO, you did not just call Jessica Biel weekday pussy.  I didn't, but that's the text she got, "not good enough."  Where's she heard that before?  Oh yeah, everywhere.  Sure she was on VH1's "100 Hottest Hotties" but she was number 98 and it was VH1.  "But she was #1 in Stuff's '100 Sexiest Women'?"  Come on. Hair, makeup, Photoshop, a publicist, it isn't real, it doesn't count.  It never counts.  Which is why even though her biggest movies are Valentine's Day, The A-Team, and New Year's Eve, none of those films appear in her Wikipedia "Career" blurb.  You know what is there?  Plays.

New Year's Eve was a vehicle for glamorous actresses to play alongside other starlets, but she sees a cast meeting where all the hotties are sitting around like, "I play the blossoming girl" or "I make out with Ashton Kutcher" or "I wear this Herve Leger dress" and Jessica gets to say, "I play a pregnant girl." Damn, yo.  Truth bombs.  Sort of puts you in your place.  The only thing worse than that for a hot actress is to be cast as the mom of a hot actress.

You wish that you had Jesse's life? Why can't you be a woman like that?  Maybe because then your Dad would have to call up this unfaithful and disrespecting boy-man to beg his trifling ass to marry his daughter.   "Please!  I'll pay for your wedding!"  You think any of the other "Sexiest Women In Magazine's" fathers would do this? They'd hire a coupe of Russian guys to disappear him.  "But he makes her happy!"  I can tell.

Happiness is not the goal, what she's hoping for is affirmation. She wants the kind of guy who is a symbol of the value she thinks she wishes she had.  She doesn't really want Justin to get her a bigger ring to show off to her friends:  Justin is the ring.



jessica biel.jpg
make sure Scarlett sees me








"Is any of this true?"  How the hell would I know, Jessica never calls me back.  I only know that when you break down the media story of Jessica Biel, this is the narrative that comes out, and it comes out because it's typical of so many women: anything that tells me I'm worth it cannot tell me who I am.  Next.

And so happiness is out, the only objective scale you have to measure value is energy and emotion.    Is there passion?  Is there drama-- of any kind? Can you start a recollection of events with "oh my God!"?  If you took all of the world's philosophies and lined them up end to end, you'd stab stoicism in the neck, stay the hell away from me old man.   The only time you'll go to a secluded beach is if it's with an inappropriate guy like your boss or your friend's husband or a photographer.  "It's complicated."  That's a sentence you'll never hear a guy say because no guy would say it, and any guy who would say it could never get close enough to you to hear him.  Get thee behind me, wuss boy. 

Here's a prediction: they won't last.  Hmmm.  Maybe the ring wasn't good enough.

V.

I don't know if Lea would reject such a ring or not.  Her hypothetical position is that a ring is a symbol and blah blah blah.

She-- you-- aren't asking for a boulder, but it tells you his priorities.  Why is it that he can save all year to rent a beach house in the summer?  Or for clothes?  He spends almost as much on hair products as you do, and half of them are for his back.  And now his single fling with frugality is with the lifetime symbol of your love?  "You know, diamonds are just a worthless commodity the media has told us are valuable." So are breast implants.  Shut it.

It's not about the ring, Alone; but about his willingness to sacrifice his own interests for you.  If he drank two fewer beers each night out... is that too much to ask?

You know what else is crazy?  He puts it on the card, going into debt.  Then you get married and suddenly you're going dutch on your own ring.  That's the kind thing that kind of guy would do.

Some girls are going to call you shallow, "it's the man that matters!"  But you know that every one of those women's profile pics are of their kids or cats or both.

I hear you telling me that it's not even a symbol as much as a test: does he have the ability to put you first?  Can he physically take from his plate and put into yours?  Any guy who gives you a small ring is going to get a gentle push back to Tiffany's or a boot to the ass.

The thing is... hypotheticals like this can only be answered because you're controlling for the most important and limitless variable, the other person. When you have a real fiance, who knows what you'd do?  Or what he'd do?  So the point of these hypotheticals isn't to determine a code of behavior but to broadcast to others something about yourself.  "I'm the kind of girl that wouldn't tolerate a guy who can't put me first."  But in your own hypothetical, hadn't you already tolerated him for a year?

The kind of man whom you're going to have to nudge towards a bigger ring, to cajole into being more selfless, to whip into settling for you-- is the kind of guy you are hypothetically attracted to.  And you know who that kind of guy finds attractive?   You.  And Jessica Biel.

These hypotheticals are dreams.  The lesson isn't what you would do; but how did you construct the fantasy?  That tells you who you are, and it's telling you to you think you should leave your Wednesdays free.  He might come over.



VI.

"Are you saying I have to settle for a smaller ring?"  No girl watching award shows to see what they're wearing but hasn't seen any of the movies and who doesn't read the post before yelling.  I'm saying if you refuse a ring from a guy which is less than what you wanted,  thinking it's a symbol of his love but hoping it is not a symbol of his love, then the problem isn't the ring, the problem is you.

---

http://twitter.com/thelastpsych








Comments

The lesson isn't what you w... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 12:27 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

The lesson isn't what you would do; but how did you construct the fantasy?

Vote up Vote down Report this comment Score: 9 (13 votes cast)
TLS you're mistaken about y... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 12:28 PM | Posted by ASF: | Reply

TLS you're mistaken about your assessment of the phrase "It's complicated" coming from a man. It is not wussy at all. This is what you tell women who ask you about your relationship status and there are other women in the picture. It says everything and nothing at the same time.

Jessica Biel is nothing special and she knows it. Her beauty is a commodity that someone like Justin could have any day of the week. She is not a particularly good (or bad) actress, so what else does she have? What does she truly have to offer to someone like Justin? Oh I know, she's a good person.

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Wow. There was a story on a... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 12:31 PM | Posted by Bertha Minerva: | Reply

Wow. There was a story on a local radio show awhile back about a guy who took all the money he'd saved up for his fiancee's ring and went to Vegas, thinking he could double it and get not just the ring but also the big screen TV he'd been coveting for ages. He lost the money, she found out about it from one of his friends, and she dumped him.

At the time I couldn't figure out why that story bugged me so much even though I'd always thought I was a "ring doesn't matter" person and in fact got engaged/married with no engagement ring at all and wasn't bothered by it.

But as usual Alone nails it. "his willingness to sacrifice his own interests for you" That's why Vegas's guy's choice of a TV gamble - as opposed to gambling for a decent car or helping out his needy parents or whatever - made it totally unsalvageable. I guess.

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well I bought a little bitt... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 2:10 PM | Posted by anon: | Reply

well I bought a little bitty ring, paid for it all without going in to debt, and she happily accepted it and wears it religiously, now 10+ years later. I guess she's a keeper?

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Nice dialectical post.... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 2:21 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Nice dialectical post.

You should do more of these.

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Yeah. She KNOWS she should ... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 3:29 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Yeah. She KNOWS she should dump him but at the same time she wants him to "show her her worth", as you put it. After months of thinking between "I should never get back with him, what a scumbag" and "But how I wish he just proposed already!" she doesn't know where the truth is anymore. You think it's easy to be Jessica?

Yeah. What about Justin? Didn't he purposefully drive Britney away from him, she cheated, and now he's forever disillisuioned about love and what not? Oh, my first love cheated on me, so now I can never trust women, and I'd better watch out. So let me drive all these women I've dated a little insane. Yeah, that feels real good. I'll hurt her, and then we'll have amazing make-up sex, and that would mean that she REALLY loves me. Because without hurting her and her forgiving me, how do I really know if she loves me?

I'm saying if you buy a ring for a guy which is less than what you know she'd expect, thinking her acceptance would be a symbol of her love, but hoping she would reject the ring, because she "knows her worth", then the problem is you.

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Correction: I'm saying if y... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 3:30 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Correction: I'm saying if you buy a ring for a WOMAN which is less than what you know she'd expect, thinking her acceptance would be a symbol of her love, but hoping she would reject the ring, because she "knows her worth", then the problem is you.

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These last two posts descri... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 3:31 PM | Posted by GT: | Reply

These last two posts describe EXACTLY what I have seen first hand in a former friend and his "fiance" right down to her breast implants. Now I have a better understanding.

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Bertha, unless that story n... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 3:45 PM | Posted, in reply to Bertha Minerva's comment, by Wookiee42: | Reply

Bertha, unless that story named names, it was fake, or at least retold in such a way to "bug you so much". Ever notice that that these local radio hosts have an incredible circle of friends that get in these wacky, highly emotional stories, or at least know someone who does?

Check out this video of Rush Limbaugh explaining talk radio schtick: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELRmgJw8muw

We have a local radio host who sometimes does shows where he takes one side on a highly charged political issue for the first hour, then completely switches sides for the second hour. By only letting certain incendiary callers through who don't get the bit/have only heard part of the show, people get angry/hooked.

Does your station have a "War of the Roses" bit? Fake too. Besides the fact that stations would get sued into oblivion for actually manipulating people like that and putting it on the air, people have done the legwork and found the voice actors working throughout different radio markets.

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The point, if there is one,... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 4:41 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

The point, if there is one, seems to be whether her asking for a bigger diamond constitutes an ultimatum. But that doesn't even matter, because no marriage that starts out that way will last a year.

If she really loves the guy but really hates the rock, she will keep quiet and upgrade it on her own. Feel free, most guys won't even notice.

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I like this version ... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 6:22 PM | Posted by Medusa: | Reply


I like this version much better.

So Lea compromised: "maybe he could get her a pair of earrings, too. Would that be acceptable?"

So... it's a math problem? "I was hoping for '2', but '1 + 1' is good enough!" I don't get how the size of a symbol makes it more or less a symbol when it comes to unquantifiable love. Whether he wants to marry you or not is just that, a binary issue: it's either yes he does, or no he doesn't. There are no 'degrees' of wanting to marry someone. If you think there is, well, then you probably shouldn't ask your girlfriend to marry you, because the proposal is actually going to be about something else, not marriage.

The thing is... hypotheticals like this can only be answered because you're controlling for the most important and limitless variable, the other person.

... which is exactly why making this into a math problem doesn't work. Wovon man nicht sprechen kann...

I think this sum up the point of this article pretty well:

Prove to me you think I'm worth it. If it sounds bitchy you aren't listening: you prove to me I'm worth it. If it sounds bitchy you aren't listening: you prove to me I'm worth it.

Lea was right, he should get her a pair of earrings as well. But not because he doesn't love you, but because you don't.

If she truly had her own sense of self-worth, she would needn't proof from someone else. The ring becomes merely an inverse symbol of how she feels about herself, not of commitment. Lea doesn't really believe that the ring is a symbol; she believes that it is evidence.

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(uh, yeah apparently I have... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 6:24 PM | Posted, in reply to Medusa's comment, by Medusa: | Reply

(uh, yeah apparently I have a cut & paste trigger finger, sorry)

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fuck it, las vegas wedding ... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 10:43 PM | Posted by vandal: | Reply

fuck it, las vegas wedding and we'll dance to a bloated elvis impersonator

our love will be symbolized by how drunk either ends up or how much money is won/lost

now to just make sure this hypothetical occurs with a guy up for it all, which isn't narrowing down much is it?

THANKS TLP!

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I think that means, how did... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 10:51 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by ginnygeneva@gmail.com: | Reply

I think that means, how did you justify doing what you did, and can you comprehend that it is fantasy, that justification. Because the reality is, well, he does not love you? For real?---I'd have to re-read it. ---The only thing that comes up for me based on this 'symbolic' thinking is, well, I guess my Dad, Mom (although she is super mentally ill so maybe it does not count), and sister do not love me. I mean, I've always known they were abusive and profoundly self centered, but it feels weird to think they don't love me for real.

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I take it to mean that the ... (Below threshold)

February 1, 2012 11:15 PM | Posted, in reply to ginnygeneva@gmail.com's comment, by Medusa: | Reply

I take it to mean that the train of thought that brought you to the fantasy, as it is informed by your personality/beliefs/insecurities/hopes/experience/etc, is what matters here, and not what actually ends up happening.

In a real-life scenario, you can't really predict what you'd actually do (limitless variable), no matter what you think or say you would do in fantasy (broadcast), what you think you are supposed to do (script), or what your ideal image of yourself is.

The thing is... hypotheticals like this can only be answered because you're controlling for the most important and limitless variable, the other person. When you have a real fiance, who knows what you'd do?

Basically, what framework are you constructing your fantasy from, how did that framework come to be, and what is it about your framework that caused you to form that fantasy?

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Yeah, presenting the other ... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 4:31 AM | Posted by Guy Fox: | Reply

Yeah, presenting the other side of the last post was slick and effective, but doesn't focusing on celebrities kind of undermine the point a bit? If the point is that these people have these problems in the first place because they can't connect with each other, and they can't connect with each other because neither one can really connect with him and herself, isn't it kinda self-defeating to use an example of famous people with whom none of the readers have any connection? The last post was really effective because the scenario was famous, but the characters were generic. It was much easier to plug known characters (and oneself) in. Here there's the same scenario, but having specific characters everyone thinks they know (but none of us really do) makes it more difficult to reflect seriously about the scenario. You can jump so much more easily to "Sure, that's how Jessica Biel is and works because she's Jessica Biel." (as if you knew why she hates her mom, why she thought she was gay in 9th grade, and why she can't even look at whipped cream).

Talking about people who aren't me is great, but it's hard to get anywhere with it when you've first got to fight through the puppets that People magazine & friends have planted in your brain.

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This might be the best expl... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 4:40 AM | Posted by Elisabeth: | Reply

This might be the best explanation of the Biel-Timberlake dynamic I've ever read.

I've never understood the claims that Biel has him by the balls. If that was true, why would he have cheated on her so many times in the first place? (Incidentally, I wonder how he'd react if she cheated on him?)

Along with every other person watching, I don't see this lasting. He will never be faithful, and simply wants someone at home so he has an excuse to never get close to the women he sleeps with.

She, if this is accurate, wants a man who matches up to the image of the person she wishes she was.

They're with each other for what it says about themselves. The other people in this "relationship" aren't really people to them. They are symbols of what they wish was their identity.

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And so happiness i... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 5:36 AM | Posted by Ambi: | Reply

And so happiness is out, the only objective scale you have to measure value is energy and emotion. Is there passion? Is there drama-- of any kind? Can you start a recollection of events with "oh my God!"? If you took all of the world's philosophies and lined them up end to end, you'd stab stoicism in the neck, stay the hell away from me old man. The only time you'll go to a secluded beach is if it's with an inappropriate guy like your boss or your friend's husband or a photographer. "It's complicated." That's a sentence you'll never hear a guy say because no guy would say it, and any guy who would say it could never get close enough to you to hear him. Get thee behind me, wuss boy.

Here's a prediction: they won't last. Hmmm. Maybe the ring wasn't good enough.

i dint understand the above statements & its context there can u kindly explain.

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(1) Read this:<a h... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 5:51 AM | Posted, in reply to Ambi's comment, by Elisabeth: | Reply

(1) Read this:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/08/love_the_way_you_lie_with_me.html

(2) Learn to spell. Good god:

"i dint understand the above statements & its context there can u kindly explain."

I understand typos, for obvious reasons. This is borderline illiterate.

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...isn't it kinda self-d... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 5:57 AM | Posted, in reply to Guy Fox's comment, by HP: | Reply

...isn't it kinda self-defeating to use an example of famous people with whom none of the readers have any connection?

If your'e watching, it's for you.

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"As if anyone ever feels gu... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 6:23 AM | Posted by aliz: | Reply

"As if anyone ever feels guilt anymore..."

you're moralising is getting worse :\

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I suppose the fact that my ... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 8:19 AM | Posted by possum: | Reply

I suppose the fact that my engagement ring came from an "estate late" sale (ie. some poor old dead lady) should have been a great big gieaway that the marriage was never going to last. Sigh, you live and learn.

Vote up Vote down Report this comment Score: -5 (11 votes cast)
just like your comment post... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 8:57 AM | Posted, in reply to aliz's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

just like your comment posting :\ Z>ASD:

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Alone, I found what looks l... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 10:36 AM | Posted by John R: | Reply

Alone, I found what looks like a great article to analyze. E.g., when the lights are turned off because she's not paying the bills the worry is not that there will be future trouble but that she was embarrassed.

http://www.dailyfinance.com/2012/02/01/why-we-buy-the-psychology-of-overspending/

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<a href="http://thirdtierre... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 10:55 AM | Posted by Nando: | Reply

http://thirdtierreality.blogspot.com/

I would accept his or her proposal, contingent on the following:

They must sign a notarized statement, whereby they clearly agree to NEVER apply to law school. I would add an escape clause: if they apply to law school, then this is grounds for divorce.

I am not a materialistic person, but I don't want to be swamped with someone else's student debt, either. Even if you do not co-sign, you will feel the crunch that their student loan payments have on your budget.

Vote up Vote down Report this comment Score: -13 (19 votes cast)
(1) Read this:<a h... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 12:11 PM | Posted by ginnygeneva@gmail.com: | Reply

(1) Read this:

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2010/08/love_the_way_you_lie_with_me.html

(2) Learn to spell. Good god:

"i dint understand the above statements & its context there can u kindly explain."

I understand typos, for obvious reasons. This is borderline illiterate.

Elisabeth, you're a bitch. Ginny

Vote up Vote down Report this comment Score: -6 (12 votes cast)
Oh, the above post was of s... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 12:27 PM | Posted by ginnygeneva@gmail.com: | Reply

Oh, the above post was of someone else responding to someone else, and me responding to that. But the computer didn't mark it as a quotation, so I wanted to clarify.
"...isn't it kinda self-defeating to use an example of famous people with whom none of the readers have any connection?"

"If your'e watching, it's for you."
Also a quote with a response.
I wish someone would explain in a rational way what 'If you're watching, it's for you' means. It sounds like something you'd hear at an A.A. meeting in California in the 1970s, by which I mean, well, nothing very nice. Something that feels dubious.

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Ginny: It seems to be a sor... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 3:28 PM | Posted, in reply to ginnygeneva@gmail.com's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Ginny: It seems to be a sort of catch phrase that Alone has. I've seen him use it in a number of contexts with different meanings:
*A person experiences events or a story as a narrative that is perfect to serve the purpose of re-enforcing their self image.
*A person watches e.g. a TV program because the characters are like them. Perhaps by design, so as to draw an audience.
*A person edits out / doesn't notice media, narratives, and events which conflict with the way they see themself / the world, so the events / media they do notice are perfect for them.
*A person is unable to experience things except as they effect them. i.e. lack of empathy except if they can imagine being that person, most abstract question is 'what would I do if?'

But I am putting words in peoples mouths, have you seen it used in a different way?

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I proposed with a yo-yo and... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 4:51 PM | Posted by crumbskull: | Reply

I proposed with a yo-yo and we bought the ring from a up-scale pawn shop next door to her work. When she picked the one she wanted the owner told us "Now I don't want you to get dissapointed..." and we both looked at each other sideways eyebrows all crowding together "But sometimes when people hear a price thats a lot lower than they expecteded..." and before he finished his sentence we both started laughing, coffee literally coming out my nose, "Dude, if its five bucks I'd be happy as heck" she says. Scumbags unite!

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You can go here, too.... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 5:38 PM | Posted, in reply to ginnygeneva@gmail.com's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

You can go here, too.

http://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/08/if_youre_watching_its_for_you.html

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i dont understand, what was... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 10:31 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by aliz: | Reply

i dont understand, what was wrong about my comment? his moralising is getting worse. it's hidden amongst the analysis he makes, but it's there and incredibly irritating. unless you like being told right and wrong from a complete stranger with a blog, i dont see what your problem is...

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Thanks for responding, it f... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 11:16 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by ginnygeneva@gmail.com: | Reply

Thanks for responding, it feels good someone answered my question. I do believe I have heard those words before, but I am more familiar with the overall concept, expressed differently and in a variety of contexts. Like any idea, it can be misused. I have no issue with how Alone uses it.. I have such a colorful history with even such a simple concept such as this; going back a very long time. I wrote four pages about it without trying, and I even liked the quality of the writing. (Surprise)! But for obvious reasons, I can’t explain. Space constraints. Rats!!!

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God I wish my sleeping pill... (Below threshold)

February 2, 2012 11:41 PM | Posted, in reply to aliz's comment, by ginnygeneva@gmail.com: | Reply

God I wish my sleeping pill would kick in.

'unless you like being told right and wrong from a complete stranger with a blog.'

Oh yes, blogs are usually so neutral...the internet has an abundance of factual, balanced and unbiased information. Just like Us magazine.

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cool. blow me.... (Below threshold)

February 3, 2012 3:38 AM | Posted, in reply to ginnygeneva@gmail.com's comment, by aliz: | Reply

cool. blow me.

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Some girls are going to ... (Below threshold)

February 3, 2012 8:09 AM | Posted by fragola: | Reply

Some girls are going to call you shallow, "it's the man that matters!" But you know that every one of those women's profile pics are of their kids or cats or both.

Love how you keep the viewpoint so true to your example: the woman putting importance on appearances, only believes that appearances (profile pics) matter. "There can't possibly be anything beyond what's being shown to me. Of course people want to advertise their most intimate beliefs to the entire world, thus, a profile pic of her cat is her most intimate relationship. LOL she must be so embarrassed about her husband! I bet she doesn't answer any of those Facebook surveys about what kind of lover her husband is either!"

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Aliz. I’m sorry you are so ... (Below threshold)

February 3, 2012 11:05 AM | Posted, in reply to aliz's comment, by ginnygeneva@gmail.com: | Reply

Aliz. I’m sorry you are so upset (although you were upset before you ever even got what I wrote). But I don’t know what to say to you to fix it. If I had phrased the comment without the sarcasm:

Aliz, the internet is full of doofuses with blogs and doofuses who respond to people who have blogs. This is not real life. People who use the internet are much meaner, stupider, and weirdly sexual than people would dare to act in life. My friend even did a psychology paper on it…..And Us magazine has a relationship with celebrities whereupon there is give and take; it is symbiotic. It is not unbiased news that is factually true. (I could say a lot about that, but I’ll stop there). Er, but also: To put it simply, Us magazine needs celebrities, and celebrities need Us magazine, and neither of them are going to do anything to fuck each other over too much because of that.
If I had said it that way, would you have been okay with that? Or is that still ‘bite-me’ material? Cuz the sarcasm wasn’t for you. It was for me.

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>they are profoundly self-c... (Below threshold)

February 4, 2012 1:38 AM | Posted, in reply to ginnygeneva@gmail.com's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

>they are profoundly self-centered
That doesn't really mean that they don't love you, just that they don't know how to love someone (in some case, even themselves).

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Oh, thanks so much. :-) </p... (Below threshold)

February 4, 2012 2:04 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by ginnygeneva@gmail.com: | Reply

Oh, thanks so much. :-)

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Wow, love this post! I'm ha... (Below threshold)

February 4, 2012 7:25 AM | Posted by Watch live TV : | Reply

Wow, love this post! I'm happy to find it. Thanks for sharing and i want to give my regards to you for making such a thing

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"You know, diamonds are ... (Below threshold)

February 4, 2012 9:22 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"You know, diamonds are just a worthless commodity the media has told us are valuable." So are breast implants. Shut it.

What now? I think Rum and Brown Brown kicked in..

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He's just not that into her... (Below threshold)

February 5, 2012 12:58 AM | Posted by anon at 3 am : | Reply

He's just not that into her.

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The kind of man whom you... (Below threshold)

February 5, 2012 5:41 AM | Posted by Whatever: | Reply

The kind of man whom you're going to have to nudge towards a bigger ring, to cajole into being more selfless, to whip into settling for you-- is the kind of guy you are hypothetically attracted to. And you know who that kind of guy finds attractive? You. And Jessica Biel.

I love how you hide those nuggets of wisdom in a diatribe that can easily make me lose the point. It forces me to pay attention.

Yes, in such cases it's the less interested partner who has the other by the short and curlies. Until the more interested partner realizes WHY they want this relationship to work.

Once you know that, the power balance completely tips over.

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I don't get it? Because the... (Below threshold)

February 6, 2012 12:03 PM | Posted, in reply to Whatever's comment, by hmm: | Reply

I don't get it? Because they want a better life? Deserve more? Boot his ass out that door?

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Nice little hit job on Jess... (Below threshold)

February 6, 2012 7:26 PM | Posted by tickety boo: | Reply

Nice little hit job on Jessica Biel, for no reason that I can see. The girl makes a pretty good living with her modeling contracts-- look for her face, plastered all over the cosmetics section, next time you go to the drug-store. Why is she being portrayed here -- based on some stupid story in Us magazine, that probably isn't true -- as a loser? Somebody's trying to piss on her parade.

Alone, did you want Justin?

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it's good to see this infor... (Below threshold)

February 6, 2012 11:46 PM | Posted by Streaming TV : | Reply

it's good to see this information in your post, i was looking the same but there was not any proper resource, thanx now i have the resource

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Happiness is not t... (Below threshold)

February 9, 2012 2:51 PM | Posted by YOHAMI: | Reply

Happiness is not the goal, what she's hoping for is affirmation. She wants the kind of guy who is a symbol of the value she thinks she wishes she had.

Amen.

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You guys can disagree with ... (Below threshold)

February 13, 2012 8:20 PM | Posted by Stephen: | Reply

You guys can disagree with me if you think I'm wrong/reply to my post, but in defense of Ms. Biel (who frankly I can only recall seeing in texas chainsaw massacre) I want to share a brief story. When I was in 6th grade one of my teachers was putting together a holiday cookbook as a class project. She asked that each student bring in a recipe from their family that they'd like to be published in the cookbook to be shared with the class. Keep in mind I was pretty rude back then and thought the assignment was stupid, so I raised my hand and in front of the class and asked if I could cut the instructions off of a box of Kraft macaroni and cheese and submit it. The teacher became very serious and said, "sure... if that's what you want me to think of it." That shut me down real quick.

Moral of the story, like it or not, is that people need to THINK before the buy/request an engagement ring about firstly what it means to them and secondly about what it means to their partner. Use common sense people. Ladies, don't expect a $20K ring when your husband-to-be makes $40K a year. If you were the one buying the ring how would you pay for it? What amount do you think would be reasonable to come out of your paycheck that cannot otherwise be spent on bills, the home, or saving for your future? Gentlemen, get her something of the style/stone that she says she likes and yes DO put a REASONABLE amount of money into it considering your life's circumstances. It's a piece of jewelry, it will cost more money than a meal out or your cell phone bill. Please people, honestly ask yourselves WHAT is an engagement ring. "It should be a physical thing that shows we're engaged, nothing more" vs "it's a symbol of his ability to sacrifice to save money for me and the extent of our love" are two incompatible beliefs, are you following me here? From the limited story of Ms. Biel and Mr. Timberlake we know no details other than she thought the ring was "too small" (if those were her words), that really doesn't give any indication of whether or not she was being reasonable or unreasonable. Sorry, like I said, feel free to disagree with me here - but it sounds like the disconnect is how they view the engagement ring, and I don't believe it's fair to jump on Ms. Biel without knowing more details.

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Moral of the story... (Below threshold)

February 24, 2012 3:19 PM | Posted by Reader: | Reply

Moral of the story, like it or not, is that people need to THINK before the buy/request an engagement ring about firstly what it means to them and secondly about what it means to their partner.
Bullshit. Rings are useless tokens of (a) possession and (b) one-time self-sacrifice. Go down to Zales and spend $1,000 on a diamond ring. Now walk to a "We Buy Gold" place and get it appraised (remember, the diamonds are absolutely worthless unless you're in the 2+ karat range). You'll be lucky to get $150 for it.

No aftermarket for rings = no inherent value for rings = upcharge for how much free sex the ring will get you. Just like VS is marketed to women who want to be told what men like to look at, rings are marketed to men who want to have the fantasy female reaction narrated. Men are paying more for the idea of their woman's response. Any reasonable woman will be thrilled with the proposal and ensuing marriage, not the ring itself.

Buy me a puppy and tell me we'll raise it. That shows you're thinking in terms of 8 to 14 years, rather than playing out a script.

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Very interesting!... (Below threshold)

April 9, 2012 12:01 AM | Posted by buy-mlbjerseys: | Reply

Very interesting!

buy mlb jerseys

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I'd express my feeling abou... (Below threshold)

April 10, 2012 3:24 PM | Posted by Imogen Caterer: | Reply

I'd express my feeling about a ring with compassion. First I'd appreciate the thought behind it.

If you don't address the emotions invoived you can't mover forward. Hence my blog post.... Shut up, Listen and Please Don’t Solve My Problem http://miraclecatalyst.com/81/shut-up-listen-and-please-dont-solve-my-problem/

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I'd express my feeling abou... (Below threshold)

April 10, 2012 3:24 PM | Posted by Imogen Caterer: | Reply

I'd express my feeling about a ring with compassion. First I'd appreciate the thought behind it.

If you don't address the emotions invoived you can't mover forward. Hence my blog post.... Shut up, Listen and Please Don’t Solve My Problem http://miraclecatalyst.com/81/shut-up-listen-and-please-dont-solve-my-problem/

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Well, if a woman were to be... (Below threshold)

April 17, 2012 1:36 PM | Posted by Attraction Expert: | Reply

Well, if a woman were to be dissatisfied with a ring, then perhaps that's a tell-tale sign of what the relationship would be like later on down the road. A ring symbolizes many things in marriage going back thousands of years, but it does not define love. It's too material to do such a thing. Plus that never stopped people during the great depression...I think this generation needs to wake up to what's important in life.

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I would appreciate what eve... (Below threshold)

May 9, 2012 7:35 PM | Posted by Laura: | Reply

I would appreciate what ever is given in the first place rather than cribbing about it. yeastinfection

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Only commenting on this bec... (Below threshold)

February 5, 2013 3:04 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Only commenting on this because I'm drunk and you called out the problem of going into debt for a sparkling boulder to symbolize the value of a person.

I am a lady and was proposed to entirely too often at an entirely too early age. I made a rule by the time that I was sixteen that I would never marry a person who did not propose to me with a ring pop. Why? Cause ring pops are awesome. Also because I figured that if he knew me, he would know the ring pop story and the implication: no ring pop = automatic no. I have stuck to this rule (never been given a diamond though, to be honest) and I think it has served me well.

Reading this post, I think my method is simply a more straightforward and less materialistic version of what they are saying. The ring pop is my loyal gatekeeper.

Also, they're delicious.

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