September 2, 2010

When Was The Last Time You Got Your Ass Kicked?

louie-bully-scene.jpg

the problem is that the answer is never




On <i>Louie</i>, super-comic Louie CK and a date end up at a late night donut shop.  Five teens roll in, obnoxious and expansive, and Louie turns and tells them to keep it down.

One teen comes over and threatens Louie.  He does it in the pseudo-friendly,  control the conversation way that is 100% the sign of someone trying to size you up; the longer it goes on, the more sure he is.

30 second clip tells you all you need to know:





"Hi, my name is Sean. What's your name?"  And extends his hand.
Louie sighs.  "Nice to meet you," he says resignedly.
"'Nice to meet you?'  Is that your name?  'Nice to meet you?'"
"No, it's Louie."
"Oh, Louie.  Hmm.  Hi, 'Loo-ey.'"  [Smirks.]


Etc.  It escalates to threats, "tell me, Louie, how long has it been since you've had your ass kicked?" and ends with the kid forcing Louie to beg: "Please do not kick my ass."

Right before he leaves, the kid says, "that was painful to watch."   He's right.


II.

The whole mess is complicated/dominated by the presence of Louie's date.   What's a chick going to make of this?   The scene concludes: Louie's date says, "mentally I know you did the right thing by not fighting, but emotionally, primally-- that was a turn off.  That was pretty humiliating, watching another guy dominate you like that." 

Let me amend that: what would a guy think a chick is going to make of this?


III.

Louis CK is prime timingly perceptive about men; but he's way off about women. 

On the one hand, you get no points for beating up a 17 year old; on the other hand, points off  for getting beaten up by a 17 year old.  Using this scoring, Louie should have clocked him.  But then there's that whole jail thing.

But there's the secret deduction: points off simply for allowing a teen to bully you for ten minutes.

"Well what would you do?" I'm asked as if what a misanthropic rummy would do and what you should do are even compatible.  But they're asking about the date:  "I don't want to humiliate myself in front of her.  I don't want her to think I'm not a man."  Ok, so fight.  "Well, I'm being honest here-- I'm not a fighter."

America isn't obsessed with sex and violence; it's obsessed with authenticity (or avoiding it).  It just so happens that sex and violence are the only two things that you can't fake, and we keep coming back to them as the definitive "measures of the man."  We can fake wealth, intellect, status, kindness, political acumen, parenting, looks-- there's no objective measure of any of these things, a man can construct any identity he wants, people might not buy it but who are they to say?  But a fight isn't a matter of opinion, it is too real.   

Same with sex.  "Listen baby, I'm a great lover."  Well, we'll know in fifteen minutes.   "Am I a real man?"  The response stands.

The anxiety over a fight when your date is right there is that she will find out the truth about your masculinity.  You'll take verbal humiliation over a beat down not because it hurts less but because (you think) it lets the question "am I a man?" rest unanswered.  Plausible deniability.


IV.

Louis CK went for the dichotomy between what a woman wants intellectually and primally; that even though women may be anti-violence (e.g. Megan Fox) they still feel drawn to dominant men.  But Louie got the subtlety wrong.  A woman doesn't want the best fighter, she just doesn't want a man who won't stand up for himself.

What would happen if he lost the fight to the 17yo?  Would she leave him for the 17yo?  Cheat on him with a tough guy some Saturday night?  (The cuckold problem.)  "I just don't want her to think I'm less of a man."

Listen to the language:  "I don't want her to think..."  That's the infection of narcissism in the thinking.   Don't you think she has her own perspective?  Don't you think that she already knows whether you are tough or not?  Unless you have a secret identity, she already knows who would win the fight.  Do you think you can fool her with words?

If she is a reasonably attractive woman-- defined as not bathing in smallpox-- then all that she gets, all day, is practice appraising men and filtering through their words.

She already knows who you are.  That's why she is, or is not, with you, despite your attempts to convince her you are someone else.  Losing a fight won't drive her to another man because if it would, she'd already be gone.


V.

The cuckold fantasy is when the girl cheats on her man with better, stronger, more masculine men.  The cuckold problem is this: the cuckold fantasy is a male fantasy.

VI.

The question no one ever asks is: how did the 17 year old know he could pick on you?  Why do you think he can sense something that your girlfriend can't?  Feminist response: "See?  Men don't think women can have their own opinions."  No, we're not sexist, we're narcissists:  it's not about you, it's about us.  Men believe they can convince people of their identity-- convince a girl to like them.  The whole male grammar is structured like this: get her into bed; get her to go out with me; show her what kind of a person I am.  We think we can fool women for the same reason a 3 year old thinks he can manipulate his parents: sometimes they let us because they were going to do it anyway.

You think you can convince her you're tougher than you are, but you worry you can't fool another guy because he "knows" toughness.   But why would he know it any better than she?   She knows you better than he does; and she knows men-- and posturing and puffing up the chest-- better than either of you.  The only person who doesn't know what kind of a person you are is you.

VII.

Disagree if you want, but there's one thing that's indisputable:  this whole scenario reads differently if the kid were black.  A 17 yo black teen comes up to your table, and it goes from being an ego battle to a felony in progress.  You think Louie would have told 5 black teens to keep it down? 

Universal agreement:  no one would think any less of you for backing down from a 17 yo black teen than if you backed down from a grizzly bear.  "Dude, a grizzly bear tried to eat me, so I just gave him my lunch!"  The hell you say.

And if you fight-- even if you lose-- no one is going to say, "ha ha, you got beat by a kid!" because everyone knows a 17 year old black kid has the strength of ten men.  It's in the Constitution.

You think the cops are going to arrest you for fighting a juvenile?

I'll even go a step further: it would be the exact same if it was a 17 year old black girl.

There's a sense that blacks are violently unpredictable, that's what TV told me, anyway.  You know that white kid in the Louie clip isn't going to murder you with the same certainty that you know this black kid might murder you. 

While we're at it, we can all agree this would be a completely different scenario if it was a white kid rolling up on a middle aged black man on a date; or a black kid vs. black adult.  No matter how equal opportunity you think you are all of those are different.  Black kid on white adult is crime/poverty; white kid on black adult is racism;  and black on black is "one of those things, you don't get involved."  Unless you're black, then you don't have much of a choice.

If you want to know why we see these things differently, check with The Atlantic, they have all the answers that George Bush stole from us to give to Katrina.  My purpose in using these  scenarios is to lead you to realize that "what would you do if...?" is an impossible question because a situation doesn't happen to you, you are the situation.  Louie wasn't the random target, he was chosen.  The kid didn't pick on the woman, right?  Nor did he threaten an empty chair.  In other words, "what would you do if a teen comes up on you?" was already answered by the teen on the way to coming up on you: nothing.  There's a chance he could be wrong.  But probably not.


VIII.

Go back to Louie.  Where did the whole thing go wrong?

An observation about the middle class: they have it deep inside their psyche that though they are taught to make prejudicial judgments based on hearsay, they are not allowed to show that they made them.  The middle class think they are lawyers.

That kid was up to no good.  You knew it as he walked to Louie's table, even before he opened his mouth.  You knew it.  But Louie/we were constructed to act only on what happens, not what you think is happening.  Since the kid was polite, Louie had to be polite back, even though the kid was obviously being a bully-- you're not allowed to respond to that.  "Hey, I was just being friendly!"  And prove he wasn't.  The kid offers to shake Louie's hand, "Hi, I'm Sean," and Louie has to shake it because so far the kid is being polite.   We relate things to our future cross examination: "isn't it true, sir, that sticks and stones can break your bones but names can never harm you?"

Since we're already knee deep in race: back when I lived in various bars in NYC, I frequently saw what I assume to be intelligent people allow what I assume to be dangerous black males come up to them at 2 am and ask them if they knew "the way to get to 44th St."  Just for my Danish and German readers who generously donate, here's a geography lesson:  Manhattan is a grid, in numerical order.  Asking a New Yorker which way is 44th St. is like asking a Florida orange farmer which way is sky.  But these white devils were willing to put their lives at risk-- not because they didn't want to appear racist, I saw the same hypnotized compliance when the perp was a white guy-- but because they are amateur lawyers: "he didn't do anything bad to me first."  So we follow the script: guy asks for directions= "ten blocks up make a left."  Guy pulls a gun= "look, I have 50 bucks, just don't hurt me."


orange grove.jpg

do you mind drawing it on a map?



IX.

The Bully Dialogue-- where they spend ten minutes chatting nicely even though both of you know you're eventually going to get stuffed in a locker-- is another Cognitive Kill Switch, which is about reversing power and dominance.   The aggressive "Hi, what's your name, that's a nice shirt you got there" works because you're not willing-- you feel you're not allowed-- to respond to the situation for what it is: a bully trying to dominate the conversation.  You feel obligated to reply to their words, and not the meaning.  So the bully gets to bully the conversation for ten minutes, after which point it hardly matters whether you get stuffed in a locker or not.

There's a model for everything in childhood.  In this case it's when the parent, rather than a direct confrontation (i.e. teach the kid how to be a man) tries to lead and trap the kid, like a jealous woman trying to catch her man in a lie.  "So, Tommy, how was school?   Anything interesting happen today?"  At this moment everyone knows it's a trap.  Dad knows what happened, and Tommy knows what happened, and now Tommy knows that Dad knows,  but Tommy still has to say, "oh, nothing really, " all the while thinking, "oh, great, I got to play this nutty game now?  When I turn 18 I am so outta here."


X.

Back to Louie.  When that kid appeared at his table, everyone knew why he was there.  So this is how the scene should have gone, though I'll admit it wouldn't have been theatric enough for TV:

"Hi, my name's Sean, what's your name?"

"Get your punk-ass away from me, I don't want to know you."

Now the kid's either going to fight you, or back down-- which is the same thing that was going to happen anyway, but at least you stood up for yourself.  She noticed.


---


http://twitter.com/thelastpsych







Comments

You should check out the mo... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 5:16 PM | Posted by countingtoten: | Reply

You should check out the movie Funny Games. The same scenario plays out.

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The look on her face at 0:0... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 5:56 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

The look on her face at 0:02 says it all. As Louis turns to tell the kids to keep it down she already knows this is going to be a train wreck. Yes, she knows him and has her own fully-formed opinions on him and this clearly isn't part of his charm.

At this point I'd wager Louis isn't giving any consideration at all to what she will think or to her presence in general or how the situation he's about to provoke might escalate and affect her. It's only when the kid walks over to the table that she even enters his calculus.

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Write a book already. I re... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 6:38 PM | Posted by Bryan: | Reply

Write a book already. I really liked this post.

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Hello. As a guy who's been ... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 6:47 PM | Posted by Themis: | Reply

Hello. As a guy who's been brought up in one pretty violent area of Europe, Greece I disagree on almost everything. Let me start quoting:

"Listen to the language: "I don't want her to think..." That's the infection of narcissism in the thinking. Don't you think she has her own perspective? Don't you think that she already knows whether you are tough or not? Unless you have a secret identity, she already knows who would win the fight. Do you think you can fool her with words?"

Absolutely. I can even fool myself with words. Even I don't know who I am or if I'll stand up for myself. That's a thing you never know unless the situation calls for it. How can she now? Nobody else knows, for pretty good reasons.

"She already knows who you are."

For the above matter, no, she doesn't. She can't know if you'll stand up for yourself. Noone can.

"The whole male grammar is structured like this: get her into bed; get her to go out with me; show her what kind of a person I am. We think we can fool women for the same reason a 3 year old thinks he can manipulate his parents: sometimes they let us because they were going to do it anyway."

No. There is no analogy to a 3 year old. A 3 year old has no chance of ever manipulating anyone. I know an awful lot of adults who carry their game successfully, every day. And you may think that Don Draper doesn't exist, and rightly think so, but there are people exactly like Draper regarding camouflaging of character.

"You think you can convince her you're tougher than you are, but you worry you can't fool another guy because he "knows" toughness. But why would he know it any better than she? She knows you better than he does; and she knows men-- and posturing and puffing up the chest-- better than either of you. The only person who doesn't know what kind of a person you are is you."

Regarding an average fight and not something that's de facto finished (like fighting a boxing champion) both sides rarely know who's gonna win. Men don't fight and bully because they know they're gonna win, they do so because societal rules require that.

"Black Kid"

There's nothing in it for you if you answer like a rape victim right from the very beginning. Or wait, there is. Making a fool out of yourself in case they're just people from another part of the USA where cities aren't a grid in numerical order.

"The Bully Dialogue-- where they spend ten minutes chatting nicely even though both of you know you're eventually going to get stuffed in a locker-- is another Cognitive Kill Switch, which is about reversing power and dominance. The aggressive "Hi, what's your name, that's a nice shirt you got there" works because you're not willing-- you feel you're not allowed-- to respond to the situation for what it is: a bully trying to dominate the conversation. You feel obligated to reply to their words, and not the meaning. So the bully gets to bully the conversation for ten minutes, after which point it hardly matters whether you get stuffed in a locker or not."

No. All that matters is *how* you respond to this kind of bully conversation. If you remain calm and answer using your wit you can even turn the situation around. It's about how he answers the questions, not about letting the bully carry on for ten minutes. Your recommendation is good in the sense that you don't lose points but if you play it correctly you can even win a few.

I'd happily take part in farther conversation.

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"She already knows who you ... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 7:14 PM | Posted by AnonyMouse: | Reply

"She already knows who you are. That's why she is, or is not, with you, despite your attempts to convince her you are someone else. Losing a fight won't drive her to another man because if it would, she'd already be gone."

This is completely wrong. Women are horrible judges of character, and frankly so are a lot of men.

John Wayne is held up as some kind of apex of American manliness. Why? Look at actual biography of Marion Morrison (John Wayne's real name) and you'll notice something: all he ever did was make movies. He never served in the armed forces or anywhere else. People think John Wayne is tough because of the characters he played, but the character is not the man.

Now go and look at the biography Audie Murphy. He was the most decorated American soldier of World War 2. He received a Medal of Honor from the U.S. as well as medals from France and Belgium. Audie also was in film, but he is not seen as the apex of American manliness. Why? Because Audie Murphy looks like a little boy. Audie doesn't have that 'tough guy' look that people are expecting actual war heroes to have.

This is not uncommon. You can't know a man's strength or courage until it is actually tested.

If you lined up the two men for women to meet, they would assume John Wayne was the authentic tough guy and Audie Murphy was some beta-male wannabe.

Your comments about the Middle Class seem spot on though.

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I agree with Bryan. Write a... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 7:14 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I agree with Bryan. Write a damn book! I'd buy it.

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"Hi, my name's Sean, wha... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 7:29 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"Hi, my name's Sean, what's your name?"

"Get your punk-ass away from me, I don't want to know you."

I disagree. That would have been excellent TV, but on a different show.

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If you look like a pussy, g... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 7:54 PM | Posted by Mike: | Reply

If you look like a pussy, guys will treat you like a pussy.

Narcissism deals with image. Yet if CK weren't a pathetic-looking fuck, the kids wouldn't have stepped to him.

An "all show, no go" bodybuilder is going to get respect, where as a Royce Gracie looking guy might get called out.

Narcissism means manipulating your image so that people don't step to you in the first place.

If you look like CK, you're asking to get fucked with.

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Not every TLP post, but an ... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 8:08 PM | Posted by Matt: | Reply

Not every TLP post, but an impressive fraction of them, contain some stunning insight that makes me go, "Holy shit, why didn't I realize that before? This explains so much."

An observation about the middle class: they have it deep inside their psyche that though they are taught to make prejudicial judgments based on hearsay, they are not allowed to show that they made them. The middle class think they are lawyers.

That's one of them.

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Danish reader here. I appre... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 8:36 PM | Posted by Michael: | Reply

Danish reader here. I appreciate the geography lesson.

And all the good work you do. Thank you.

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Ok, lots to say here. Half ... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 9:22 PM | Posted by Fritz: | Reply

Ok, lots to say here. Half of the post was right on. The other half was wrong. Louis only told those kids to be quiet to impress his date. If he had stood up to the tough white kid he might have earned her respect. Women really do believe that stuff, just like men do. If you stand up to a bully, you are a tough guy, that is the plain truth. I love the stuff about black people. You are so right on. Black people in general radiate an aura of violence around them, whether they are male, female, old, young, whatever, like it or not. Only people who have never been around black people would tell you otherwise. It is telling that a black person can threaten a white person and we all just sort of shrug, but if a white person were to threaten a black person he must be some kind of hero. I remember about 15 years ago walking through Washington Square Park at night and seeing some fat white guy yell at a black dreadlocked drug dealer and tell him off. The black guy just kept on walking. I was impressed. Another story about a friend of a friend who is an MMA fighter and a bit of a lunatic. Once he was surrounded by 8 black men. As tough as he was, he knew that he couldn't beat them. He said, "I can't beat all of you, but one of you niggers is going home with a broken arm." They backed off. This guy is my hero. It takes balls to stand up to a bully, even more 8 of them, even more so 8 black ones. And saying that doesn't make me a racist. It makes me honest.

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Also, I don't agree that if... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 9:30 PM | Posted by F: | Reply

Also, I don't agree that if Louie had stood up to him then it would have been the same results. This bully was able to win without having to hurt anyone. If Louie had lamely tried to defend himself, he would have gotten hurt. I am not sure if he would have gained much by getting trounced by a high school kid, and possibly the kid's friends who might have been eager to join in the fun (again, if it had been black kids, there is no question they would have joined in.)

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Fritz, nope, it makes you r... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 9:36 PM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

Fritz, nope, it makes you racist. Your assumption that everyone else has your same experience of this "aura of violence" and is just not "honest" enough to admit it is the tip off. Seriously? You see a 60 year old black woman and you're intimidated? If you pass some 12 year old kid walking to school, and they're black, you feel threatened? That's just bizarre. Not everyone watches as much tv as you do.

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HKB, like I said, people wh... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 9:39 PM | Posted by Fritz: | Reply

HKB, like I said, people who don't believe that about blacks are either too blinded by their desire to be politically correct or have simply not spent any time around real black people (not the kind on TV dramas). Only you know which kind you are. And since you are interested in my personal life, I haven't watched TV in 15 years.

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Every racist I've ever know... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 10:03 PM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

Every racist I've ever known always uses that same tactic of "you think it too you just won't say it". NO I do not have the experience you described and not for lack of association. Stop speaking for everyone but yourself. The "aura of violence" that you speak of that surrounds black people has a grain of truth, as it would make sense in our racist culture for white people to feel that black people are a threat. But to say that ALL black people regardless of age, gender, or any other factor possess this aura strikes me as a racist and possibly paranoid point of view, and you by participating in this opinion of black people without examination of your own view AS the problem, and instead just assigning it as an intrinsic characteristic of black people is racist.

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BS."Making a fool ou... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 10:11 PM | Posted, in reply to Themis's comment, by CC: | Reply

BS.
"Making a fool out of yourself in case they're just people from another part of the USA where cities aren't a grid in numerical order."
The hypo specifically said black kids at 2 a.m. Yeah, black juveniles with NYC accents are big on solo world traveling. And being too dumb to figure out the grid. Are you kidding me? Are you really arguing this? And how many gridded cities are in _random_ numerical order? Random alphabetical order? This is BS to the Nth degree. The hypo specifically asked for a numbered _street_. Be serious. You're alternative posits an out of town visitor. Just how long would one have to be out and about in midtown before discovering the numerically ordered grid concept and being able to adjust? One block? Two? You're reaching.
BTW, Last Psych skewed the hype to make it even more obvious. I've lived in NYC bars for years too, and I've never gotten asked for the street; usually it's the Avenue. I'll let the pedants figure that one out.

And another thing, this is BS too: "All that matters is *how* you respond to this kind of bully conversation. If you remain calm and answer using your wit you can even turn the situation around."

You two are in vehement agreement. "Get out of my face," seems like a clever, witty response to me.

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you got it both right and w... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 10:21 PM | Posted by Sm: | Reply

you got it both right and wrong, as if i'd know what's right, but this comes from the experience:

1) yes, you don't have to pretend everything is ok.
2) no, you don't have to escalate it right there.

verbal kung fu can get you out of lot's of trouble. there are many ritual dances how males can save their ego and still don't get their asses kicked.

3) if you're sure there will be fight, you should attack first.
4) if you want to talk about this subject - read this: http://www.amazon.com/Meditations-Violence-Comparison-Martial-Training/dp/1594391181

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Huh? This makes no sense.<... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 10:34 PM | Posted, in reply to Sm's comment, by CC: | Reply

Huh? This makes no sense.
1. Yes, you don't? I think the phrase is 'No, you don't....'
2. If you're not going to escalate right there, when it happens, when are you going to escalate? But why is it escalating to tell a punk who shoves his face into your space to get out of your face?

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You know this is a COMEDY s... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 10:50 PM | Posted by Decavolt: | Reply

You know this is a COMEDY show... right? Taking it all just a wee bit too seriously.

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"Disagree if you want, but ... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 11:05 PM | Posted by Ryanblakdeth: | Reply

"Disagree if you want, but there's one thing that's indisputable: this whole scenario reads differently if the kid were black."

Wow, dude or dudette. You are really coloring (pun intended) ALL black people with the same crayon. No racism here. Nope, not at all. Move along. *sarcasm*

I don't know how the scenario reads any differently if the kid were black. The author OBVIOUSLY is not black or else this statement would have never been made. Racism galore. Decent insights but terrible stereotyping.

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"Disagree if you want, but ... (Below threshold)

September 2, 2010 11:06 PM | Posted by Ryanblakdeth: | Reply

"Disagree if you want, but there's one thing that's indisputable: this whole scenario reads differently if the kid were black."

Wow, dude or dudette. You are really coloring (pun intended) ALL black people with the same crayon. No racism here. Nope, not at all. Move along. *sarcasm*

I don't know how the scenario reads any differently if the kid were black. Depends on who the black person is. The scenario would play out differently with a different white character, too. The author OBVIOUSLY is not black or else this statement would have never been made. Racism galore. Decent insights but terrible stereotyping.

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In real life you are right,... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 12:21 AM | Posted, in reply to Ryanblakdeth's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

In real life you are right, however on TELEVISION the rules change and what TLP is saying is correct.

Then again some parts of the post seem to be trying to apply to real life and others television or maybe that's just what I want to believe.

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Waaaaaah! TLP is a little... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 12:59 AM | Posted, in reply to Ryanblakdeth's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Waaaaaah! TLP is a little more honest than you about cognitive processes out of his control...like stereotyping. Nice puns.

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Tell me how his statement i... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 1:08 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Tell me how his statement is not racism and then we can have a valid discussion.

I'm surprised that nobody else has realized this blatant stereotype.

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I more or less agree with T... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 1:29 AM | Posted by Gil: | Reply

I more or less agree with TLP. An intellectual part of the woman would probably be thinking that "he's a no-good kid and you should ignore him" and the primal part of her is thinking "Are you going to let this punk kid dominate you like this? Geez! What would you if you were confronted by a burglar? Get on your knees and beg for your life?"

However what isn't mention is what the young fellow is thinking. He's thinking that since Louis isn't the owner but just another customer he has no right to tell him to be quiet. The act of telling him to be quiet was nothing but an act of dominance from Louis especially as he has a woman with him and he wants to look tough by thinking he can dominate kids with merely his voice. The young fellow has his friends to impress and if he doesn't retaliate he'll look weak in their eyes so he figures he should do something. The mere fact that Louis says the words in a request tone when it should have been an order tone (or not said anything at all) shows that Louis can't fight nor dominate and therefore he began the polite verbal bullying.

However I agree with your conclusion: Louie should have told them with a strong, dominant tone that makes everyone else (assuming there was anyone else) turn around to see what might happen and say, "Look I'm trying to have a quiet time alone with my date here. But if you're looking to start a fight with me then I'm more than willing to defend myself and kick your ass!" Chances are the young fellow would back off and the crew would have left. On the other hand, had the young fellow indeed start a fight Louie would have many indepedent witnesses so he could claim self-defence in a court of law.

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I don't know where where yo... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 2:19 AM | Posted by Joe: | Reply

I don't know where where you grew up, but if a brawl starts all 4 of those guys will jump him. I spent the first half of my childhood in a place that required you to know when to confront, when o fight and when to run, the hell with what your girl thinks.

As a young adult, a friend of mine was murdered in a situation like this. It wasn't even a rough neighborhood. His head was beat repeatedly against the parking lot pavement outside a restaurant in Palatine Illinois by four kids from Wooddale, IL. Nice middle class suburb. He was 35 years old and left a wife and two little girls. Apparently, he told one of the kids to get off the hood of his car. Kid confronted him, he stood up to the kid and then the group beat-down began. He never came out of the coma. He died a few days later. This is real.

My first wife was also murdered. She was shot in the face on a street in Chicago's Uptown neighborhood--not a good neighborhood at the time. No suspect and no motive ever came to light.

I don't care what my current wife thinks about how I respond or whether I'm man enough and she knows I don't care. People get hurt and people die in these situations. You've got to think about survival and that means understanding the primitiveness of aggression. Perhaps it's fun to explore the narcissistic dimensions of all this, but what it's really about is men and women and the fact that we're jumped up monkeys posturing for position and status and sometimes it becomes a very dangerous game and even deadly endeavor. Who's going to be the big dog on the porch?

It would have been more interesting if you had written about how situations like this escalate and trigger primitive death anxieties and how we human beings are put in an awful position when confronted with the threat of violence and the question of how to respond to violence. It isn't just narcissism. It's about much more primitive competition for resources, including mating privileges. The mind isn't all ego and self. There's a lot of ape still in left in us.

Yes, the video upset me. Because I see the focus on narcissism as a secondary issue covering over the real issue of perfectly appropriate death anxiety triggered in a situation like this.

Grown-ups learn that we're jumped up monkeys and try to live beyond the primitive.

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I didn't think the original... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 2:20 AM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

I didn't think the original post was racist, I thought it was pointing out the racism going on in the fictional or real white guy's head if the teenager was black:
"There's a sense that blacks are violently unpredictable, that's what TV told me, anyway. You know that white kid in the Louie clip isn't going to murder you with the same certainty that you know this black kid might murder you."
This is what would be going on in Fritz' head. And probably most white people's heads. It's not saying that black people are violently unpredictable, it's saying that there is a "sense" they are, to a white person.

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Ok, so one could argue it's... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 2:25 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Ok, so one could argue it's not racism. It's, at best, a stereotype.

The fact that the TV told him anything about a black person tells me that his perceptions are not based on the real world. That's all that I need to know. The rest explains itself.

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TLP isn't talking about how... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:25 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Kyle: | Reply

TLP isn't talking about how a person in Louie's situation views black people. He's talking about how this person predicts the girl or any other witnesses would view a confrontation with a black person.

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you've got some broken html... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:42 AM | Posted by antoboyo: | Reply

you've got some broken html goin on at the top

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How is that not racism?... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:42 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

How is that not racism?

"A 17 yo black teen comes up to your table, and it goes from being an ego battle to a felony in progress." Felony in progress. Stereotype 1. All blacks are felonies in progress. Where's the logic?

"Universal agreement: no one would think any less of you for backing down from a 17 yo black teen than if you backed down from a grizzly bear." Stereotype 2. Black guys, particularly teenagers, are no different from grizzly bears. OK, sure.

"...everyone knows a 17 year old black kid has the strength of ten men." Stereotype 3. Wow, ALL 17 year old black males? OK, sure. I'm sure that Gary Coleman had the strength of 10 men. 10 black men? That would logically insinuate a circular argument. 10 white men? That's just a stereotype.


"You know that white kid in the Louie clip isn't going to murder you with the same certainty that you know this black kid might murder you." Stereotype 4. Has this guy even been around black people? I've been around them enough to know that sure, there are blacks that I would most likely not mess with. But, there are also whites, Asians, Hispanics, etc. that I would hesitate to even look at in the right environment/setting. And the argument that this is what the TV told him. Yeah, that's stereotype 5. Or, rather, just not thinking for one's self. Either way, it's a losing argument.

I'm always open to new ideas. People have to think for themselves, too. It was fun debating even though nobody has given one solid argument in favor of this article not being based on stereotypes.

Ah well, have fun, folks.

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I can recall about a 5 year... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:52 AM | Posted, in reply to Joe's comment, by Local: | Reply

I can recall about a 5 year period where Palatine has been what I'd call a "good neighborhood." I digress...

So what if he has death anxiety? Unless a man plans to turn tail and run for the hills (such a turn on), he needs to stand up for himself, in some way, shape or form.

He wants to show her he's tough, but can't, because he's too much of a pussy. While he's peeing herself, she's thinking, "Wonderful, he's too afraid to fuck with a toddler. What happens when I get mugged?"

So, no, evolutionarily men don't get to have death anxiety. Men are supposed to protect us. Watching a man get pushed around by someone younger/stronger/better doesn't make us think, "Wow, what a level headed gentleman I've chosen." Quite the opposite: "I wonder if the guy bullying him around is single?"

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What's the show's target ma... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:06 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Local: | Reply

What's the show's target market. White, middle to upper class. Where might you find these people? The suburbs. What might you not find a lot of in the suburbs? "Authentic" black people.

Before you cry racism, think about it. There's black - a person with dark skin - then there's BLACK - a dirt poor, drug dealing, grandma punching delinquent.

The former exists as a person, so he can't possibly be a REAL black person. He's too much like ME (and I'm WHITE!). He's just a reverse Michael Jackson. The latter is, well, a suburban middle class preconception that doesn't actually exist.

So, when discussing the American middle class via the television that shoved down our obese maws, it's pretty safe to make tongue-in-cheek statements about felonies and muggings and insta-death in regards to blacks. Suburban America has a nice, invisible fence between it and the big bad cities that keep all those nasty "real" black people in.

If you put in a black kid instead of the white kid, Suburban America would have taken a collective gasp. Dear, God! That poor man is about to die! No one (save the 14 people in major cities who know "real" black people AND watch these programs) would think he was a pussy for backing off.

Next test: What happens when you substitute a Mexican who calls him gringo?

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I just revisited the Cognit... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:54 AM | Posted by Ben: | Reply

I just revisited the Cognitive Kill Switch post, and I noticed at the bottom that a Part 2 to appear soon is advertised, though I don't recall any part 2 ever appearing.

I'd love to see one if you haven't lost interest.

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Anonymous, the stereotypes ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 5:50 AM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

Anonymous, the stereotypes are being pointed out, not endorsed. If a young black man acted in the way the young white man did in the clip it wouldn't be perceived as an ultimately harmless confrontation any more, it would be perceived as a serious crime BY society/white people. Not that it SHOULD be, but that it would be, BECAUSE of racism.

"The fact that the TV told him anything about a black person tells me that his perceptions are not based on the real world"
I believe "that's what TV told me, anyway" is meant facetiously. The media portrays young black men as recklessly violent and scary, like wild bears. Everyone absorbs this message effortlessly through the media.

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you know mr psychiatrist i ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 6:59 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

you know mr psychiatrist i like your writings and they teach me alot about myself because i am a narcissist but it gets me thinking sir are you yourself a narcissist? not to diss you but your writings feel kind of.. well like your stuck, mentally. like you always say, what does the writer want the reader to believe? god bless (i mean that in a good way)

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Wow, you are wrong on almos... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 8:00 AM | Posted by JJ: | Reply

Wow, you are wrong on almost every point. CK had no business telling them to keep it down, that is the job of the store owner. If he wants to play cop, he better back it up with power, not bluster. If he really wanted to impress his girl, he'd have used HUMOR, not power. He could have made a joke to the teens, not acted like their father. Even when the kid came to the table, he could have made him a friend, asked him to sit down, joked around, had some fun, not taken himself so seriously. Being a real man is knowing your power, not demonstrating it.

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There's probably nothing th... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 10:03 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

There's probably nothing that isn't or can't be interpreted as racist as soon as you perceive that there are races. The problem is in treating everyone with bias or prejudice and refusing to even consider an alternative.

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Bullies play on the fear of... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 11:21 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Bullies play on the fear of the first hit; get it out of the way as quickly as possible, tell him to hit you "hit me or quit wasting my time", if you can get a couple in, good, but if your outsized, take a couple and go down: fin.

Get away from the psychological dominance thing as quickly as possible, let the guy know you know exactly what he's doing and then get the physical stuff over quickly too: it doesn't matter if you loose, its all about taking the beating and moving on. :)

Then you can find out where he lives and turn up at 3am with a bat and/or friends.

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I agree Louie should have s... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 11:26 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I agree Louie should have slugged him first, who gives a shit what the lady thinks.

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I really liked this article... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 11:35 AM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

I really liked this article

Anyway I think that if I had to fight against a group of teenager I would just grab them and eat their faces. Ah ah ah can you imagine that. Very funny

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"Get your punk-ass away fro... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 11:56 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"Get your punk-ass away from me, I don't want to know you."

A response like that is likely to prompt a fight. I have been in situations where someone is trying to pick a fight a couple of times. The best way to handle it is with a sense of humor to disarm/diffuse the situation while saving face. Saving face is a secondary goal to not getting hurt and not having to hurt someone else, especially a young kid. The attraction of the woman that you are with is less relevant than your own sense of honor and pride that you avoided having to hurt someone or getting hurt yourself.

And FFS don't let a woman's attraction guide your actions in situations like these. That only makes you a chump and is half the reason why that guy is messing with you in the first place. If she loses attraction for you (which is likely if you look like a wuss) and somehow can't get past it she probably isn't a mature person anyways.

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hey anon above me you are a... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 12:03 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Steve: | Reply

hey anon above me you are an idiot. Fighting a 17 year old is not likely to cause serious harm or death to the participants. Only a pussy would try desperatly to save the situation with humor or whatever. A real man would just tell him to fuck off and if he wants to fight then let's fight.

Also it's not only about the woman's attraction. Do you want to fag your way out of a confrontation with a stupid 17 year old? What kind of man lives like this? What kind of example are you giving your kids?

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Right......nothing says "I'... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 12:22 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Right......nothing says "I'm a man" like being manipulated into a fight by a high school bully.

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Steve, you are obviously al... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 1:14 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by JJ: | Reply

Steve, you are obviously all talk with very little real world experience and a lot of juvenile unresolved anger.

If you actually followed your own advice, then you could only be writing from a jail cell.

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Some related and unrelated ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 1:48 PM | Posted, in reply to Local's comment, by GT: | Reply

Some related and unrelated points to the post I'm responding to:

1. This wasn't a situation where he was protecting her. He brought this on himself by trying to be something/someone he is not. It's easy to say he has to fight since you are not the one who has to suffer the physical and legal consequences of striking a juvenile.

2. People like to talk big under the assumption that other people are operating under the same social rules of "niceness" as they are so when some people yell and scream, they are assuming that you won't pop them in the mouth (a reasonably good assumption but many a person paid dearly for this miscalculation).

3. "You're racist" is another cognitive kill switch.

4. Just be real and true to yourself. If you are not a "tough" guy, so be it. No shame in that. Einstein wasn't a tough guy, Pasteur wasn't either I'm sure. Thomas Edison? Bill Gates? Everyone trying to be the "tough guy." Problem is, there is always some bigger, stronger, tougher, faster than you right around the corner.

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Too much tough talk on the ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 1:56 PM | Posted, in reply to JJ's comment, by GT: | Reply

Too much tough talk on the internet is always suspect. The anger seems to seethe off of his writing.

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"The cuckold fantasy is whe... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 2:14 PM | Posted by wisegirl: | Reply

"The cuckold fantasy is when the girl cheats on her man with better, stronger, more masculine men. The cuckold problem is this: the cuckold fantasy is a male fantasy."
This is right on. Men shouldn't be threatened by stronger, more masculine men. Women don't like hyper masculine men. Men only think we do because strength is what they admire in other men.
THe ones you should be threatned by are the sweet ones with the winning personalities who are interested in what we have to say.

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"The cuckold fantasy is whe... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 2:14 PM | Posted by wisegirl: | Reply

"The cuckold fantasy is when the girl cheats on her man with better, stronger, more masculine men. The cuckold problem is this: the cuckold fantasy is a male fantasy."
This is right on. Men shouldn't be threatened by stronger, more masculine men. Women don't like hyper masculine men. Men only think we do because strength is what they admire in other men.
THe ones you should be threatned by are the sweet ones with the winning personalities who are interested in what we have to say.

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Joe--Two words- "whi... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:02 PM | Posted, in reply to Joe's comment, by Woman-white: | Reply

Joe--
Two words- "white flight". I left Fresno because I was horribly harassed by the Latino males as their religion is exceedingly sexist. Is that racist to comment on culture? I found the white neck heads to be rapists-mostly-and the rest to hate women-pretty much. I spoke to maybe two black people. Always felt the smarter blacks know how horrible it is to be talked shit to cause I'm attractive and have my opinion discounted- told I'm stuck up, should be grateful, and not so intense/angry/smart, "Why don't you just smile?" This younger generation is WAY better. No matter what Chad Kultgen writes.
I have told my husband flat out to avoid conflict as these men-always men 95%, doing this shit-as they are scum and not worth it.
We would simply do everything we could to REMOVE OURSELVES. I guess that would be Irish/French/Swedish and a Jew flight.
We live in a lower middle class hood and hang out in the upper class hoods so to avoid this crap. Thankfully, we have not had weird youth confrontations here in L.A. Well, maybe one black hippie with dread locks in Silver lake at a bar once, but the bartender and door guy kicked him out.
I think it's the legal cannabis use that keeps LA mellow.
Sorry about your friend and your wife-that is really sad.

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Note:The dread-loc... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:11 PM | Posted by white women: | Reply

Note:

The dread-locked hippie was high-not sure on what-looked like
acid-but we were in Silverlake to be fair-it is to be expected.
Who can take dread-locks, a rosta knit cap, a t-shirt with a big green marijuana leaf on it and patchuli serious? He was funny.

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"you are the situation."<br... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:35 PM | Posted by medsvstherapy: | Reply

"you are the situation."
Man, that kills my theory. My guess was that Alone was actually The Situation.

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"So what if he has death an... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:54 PM | Posted, in reply to Local's comment, by Joe: | Reply

"So what if he has death anxiety? Unless a man plans to turn tail and run for the hills (such a turn on), he needs to stand up for himself, in some way, shape or form."

No he doesn't. A "man" considers the seriousness of death and the grief of those he leaves behind. A man must appraise the situation. A middle aged guy doesn't take on four out of control young, adult males, unless he's hoping his wife will be turned on by his corpse and his children would prefer to have no father.

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I'm a man, I don't need to ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:57 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Steve: | Reply

I'm a man, I don't need to do stuff to show that I am. I would do that only because it's the right thing to do according to my man-common sense

A stupid teenager acts like a jerk to me, and I'm telling him to fuck off. Then I would ignore him

I'm not going to try to be mister diplomacy at all cost. It would be a simple and rude "go fuck yourself I'm not talking to the likes of you". If he wants a fight, he will do anything to get it- to making a move to pestering me past an acceptable threshold. At that point he will know a shocking new world of unbelievable violence and pain. I could bite his face, I could smash his ribs with my fists (punching until his ribs cracks)

Maybe you may think I'm angry or something but I don't care. I am one of the most laid back people on earth. But I am not going to become a diplomatic faggot if someone bullies me or whatever. Unless he is hulk hogan or a bear or a small army

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Are you addressing me? I h... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 3:58 PM | Posted, in reply to Woman-white's comment, by Joe: | Reply

Are you addressing me? I have no idea what this has to do with my comment. I said nothing about race. My friend was murdered by white males and I don't know who murdered my wife. So I'm not sure what you're reacting to in my comment. It had zero to do with race.

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This happened in the 1970's... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:08 PM | Posted, in reply to Local's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

This happened in the 1970's. Palatine was okay then. This was up by Rand and Dundee Rds in a perfectly fine neighborhood.


"no, evolutionarily men don't get to have death anxiety. Men are supposed to protect us. Watching a man get pushed around by someone younger/stronger/better doesn't make us think, "Wow, what a level headed gentleman I've chosen." Quite the opposite: "I wonder if the guy bullying him around is single?""

It's not a matter of get to or don't get to have death anxiety. It happens. It's universal and people escalate and die because of it. We're not talking about school. We're talking about adults and how adults ought to respond when confronted with dangerous situations and bad odds. You're talking like a child.

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wisegirl I think men should... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:10 PM | Posted, in reply to wisegirl's comment, by Wise Steve: | Reply

wisegirl I think men should not be threatened by more masculine men because if they have no control over it is wasted time.

Anyway women prefer masculine men (not hyper, just masculine) and go crazy for masculine men with a sweet caring attitude. You don't know women much or you are lying

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Shut up woman, you don't ge... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:18 PM | Posted, in reply to Local's comment, by Steve: | Reply

Shut up woman, you don't get to tell men what to do. I would fight almost anybody and beat the shit out of him risking my life because I want to. I expect this to make women wet, but I hate your attitude: "WE ARE WOMEN AND YOU MUST RISK YOUR LIFE FOR US AND FOR OUR SEXUAL EXCITEMENT". Fuck you. Who cares about what you want. If you want a manly dude find a manly dude, but don't you dare talking to men like that. "US WOMEN WANT THIS WANT THAT THINK THIS THINK THAT" Who the hell cares. Fuck you

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Yes, you are correct women ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:27 PM | Posted, in reply to Wise Steve's comment, by wisegirl: | Reply

Yes, you are correct women do like men who are just the right amount of masculine, but I think men and women may disagree about what is the masculine ideal. Women want a man of integrity, someone who is kind to others, loyal, good natured, good looking etc. How well he would do in fight is the last thing that crosses our mind. So when Alone says that the cuckold fantasy is the male fantasy what he is saying is that women do not think in these terms. Women don't want stronger more aggresive men. Those guys are annoying and scary. I know these things, I'm a woman.

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very aggressive men are jus... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:35 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

very aggressive men are just jerks, everyone hates them and find them annoying. I am pretty sure that the definition of a manly, likeable strong man would be the same for men and women.

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anyway, personally, I like ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:39 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

anyway, personally, I like being really relaxed and laid back in my real life. I really like to be as relaxed as possible and enjoy the small things in life like the company of your friends and people. I pray I will never get into a fight in my life. But I also like that there is an incredible predisposition to unbelievable violence in me. If someone comes to me looking for a fight he will find it if he pushes hard enough. I will punch his throat or kick him to death using my fist (an advanced fighting technique not many manage to master). I acted confrontationally and in an aggressive way in the past when I thought it was the right thing to do, and fortunately the other party stepped down pretty quickly

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Snooki can do no wrong.... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 4:43 PM | Posted, in reply to medsvstherapy's comment, by GT: | Reply

Snooki can do no wrong.

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Is Steve for real?... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 5:07 PM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

Is Steve for real?

How often do you guys sit around day dreaming about how tough you would act in hypothetical confrontations? Most women don't give a shit about or have even given a thought to whether or not her partner could win a fight. I think men perpetuate the idea that women give a shit for some reason about pointless male ego battles to cover the fact that what they really want is to impress other men. The hot ladies you "win" for being the biggest asshole around is just the trophy to show off to other men.

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Not sure if anyone has read... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 6:06 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Not sure if anyone has read down to this point, but I witnessed a similar situation while at a bar. Musclebound guy was trying to hit on a lady at my table, and her boyfriend (a much smaller guy) laughed in his direction. Within seconds the meathead was at our table, telling the little guy he needed to get up because he was going to get his ass kicked. The little guy never acknowledged the meathead, he just whipped out his cellphone and started dialing 911. "You've just threatened me, I'm calling the police... if you stop me from making this call, that'll be an additional crimninal charge for you." The meathead looked paralyzed, the little guy asked the operator to hold. The meathead looked like he wanted to get out of there. "Wait, don't leave. We're still going to fight. It's just that if I win, I kicked your ass and you go to jail. If I lose, you still go to jail and a judge has to consider that you still wanted to fight knowing the police were en route." The meathead didn't say a word, he ran to the bar, closed his tab and left. I know it sounds rehearsed...and it probably was, but still...there's manly...and then there's "taking someone's soul" manly...his girlfriend probably screwed his brains out that night...it doesn't always have to end in a fight.

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What if the woman is the na... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 6:38 PM | Posted by RB: | Reply

What if the woman is the narcissist? What if she needs a particular reaction from him to support her image--the kind of woman who attracts a man who can turn into an ass-kicking machine on a moment's notice?

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Right......nothing says ... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 7:32 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Right......nothing says "I'm a man" like being manipulated into a fight by a high school bully.

And nothing says you're not a man like worrying about whether your actions say "I'm a man".

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Louis CK rattled off a bunc... (Below threshold)

September 3, 2010 10:13 PM | Posted by Jim: | Reply

Louis CK rattled off a bunch of drunken tweets on a NY-LA flight a couple days ago. He was totally hammered. What was he drinkng? RUM!!!

Holy. Fuck.

Alone IS LouisCK

http://twitter.com/louisck

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I watched the episode - ver... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 12:04 AM | Posted by Bram: | Reply

I watched the episode - very uncomfortable.

My old Marine close combat instructors taught me to always fight dirty, use what is at hand, and sucker-punch. My left hand would have been searching for the sugar jar or napkin holder to break across his right eye if he didn't fuck-off.

More disturbing - the same actress (liked her in Wild Things, not so much in Two and a Half Men) played Louie's mother in a different episode. Why is he dating his Mom - and turning her off with his wimpiness?

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No, it doesn't, really. It ... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 1:07 AM | Posted, in reply to Mike's comment, by Zo: | Reply

No, it doesn't, really. It simply means believing, without even knowing you believe it, that it's all about you. All. It really takes some thinking—or some experience living with one—or, hell, being a parent of a very small child—to comprehend this magical, all encompassing entitlement, where the world has not even opened up yet to admit the possibility of an Other.

And yet they walk among us!

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Why do they always have guy... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 1:54 AM | Posted by acute_mania: | Reply

Why do they always have guys who are way older than 20 playing teenagers? Even Louis CK probably had more hair than that "17 year-old"

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@ Local"So, no, evol... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 2:38 AM | Posted, in reply to Local's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

@ Local
"So, no, evolutionarily men don't get to have death anxiety. Men are supposed to protect us."

In the same way, evolutionarily women don't get to have much power.

I don't take issue with your pointing out that such primitive feelings will play a role, but rather with the black-and-whiteness of it you suggest. Women will never truly be considered equals if they themselves cannot accept being equals.

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Well, personally after obse... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 3:13 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Well, personally after observing this exchange in the video my thoughts are this:
The bald fat old man is such a wimp, with no capacity for wit, intelligence, bravery, etc... so much so that a teenager is able to humble him without even trying too hard.

I'm not too sure about TLP's analysis, it seems rather far out there... but objectively, Louis CK behaved so incredibly pathetically in that video. He didn't have to punch the kid, he didn't have to threaten him. He could have used wit -- humor. He could have demonstrated a capacity for diplomacy. He could have done SOMETHING to take control of the situation, but he doesn't even try. He sorta looks down and allows this child with a high school uniform to totally demonstrate him for an utter failure of a man.

It's not about being physically violent, just prove that you are worth something at all. Do something. Anything would ahve been better than nothing.

That is truly what made it all so pathetic. He basically said "Hi, I have absolutely NOTHING to offer."

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I’m surprised this hasn’t b... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 3:15 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I’m surprised this hasn’t been commented on.

How is “flying into a rage” to defend your idea of what a man should do (defend himself, be the tough guy) anything BUT narcissistic? Louis shouldn’t care that he loses face. It’s that monkey in your head telling you all the posturing is important to validate your manhood.

The reason this scene is so uncomfortable is that all of us are attached to this self image of not backing down, being the man, in this situation. Sometimes we have to admit we’re fucking pussies and let it be what it is. Especially if your life depends on it.

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First, all the people comme... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 4:14 AM | Posted by jtn: | Reply

First, all the people commenting on stereotypes are idiots. Second, saying "Get your punk ass out of here" is NOT starting a fight. Throwing the first punch would be starting the fight.

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I read this comment in napo... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 4:23 AM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

I read this comment in napolean dynomite's voice.

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A few thoughts...1) ... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 4:38 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

A few thoughts...
1) TLP seems to be going a bit nuts yet again. Was he always this wacko, or is he in a manic state or something. I remember the good old days when he would have lucid commentary that followed a clear line of thoughts that didnt make cavernous leaps of logic and jabs in our lower backs everywhere all for attention (race, violence, sex/ism). I mean what about the posts about mental conditions and seroquel? The last one I can remember is the spate of schizo posts, which I did enjoy. The troll in me loves the crazy posts, but they get exhausting after awhile as he keeps upping the tantalizing ante and even I reach a point where I say "wow this is too trollish to even take seriously".

I mean, when we start going from sexism into racial territory that's where my inner troll says "oooh kay, this is too ridiculous".

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Steve - Your constant use o... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 8:26 AM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Steve - Your constant use of "faggot" as an insult and idiotic violent fantasies that involve "ripping faces off" makes you sound exactly like the kind of idiot kid that Louis was dealing with. You sound just like a stupid teenage jock or the slightly older, and more pathetic and even angrier, version pumped up on steroids. You sound like the kind of guy who would gang rape a guy for being a "faggot"...yeah, nothing says "I'm secure in my masculinity" like constantly using "faggot" as an insult.

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dude I don't sit around hav... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 10:23 AM | Posted, in reply to HKB's comment, by Steve: | Reply

dude I don't sit around having violent fantasies. Biting someone's face off is just something that randomly flashed in my mind reading the article and I thought it was hilarious, lol.

Anyway I have my vision of how a man should behave and I will conform to that.

I think that you are projecting when you think that I would act like that only for impressing others.

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I would never, never, start... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 10:28 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Steve: | Reply

I would never, never, start a fight with someone without provocation. But if a little shit went to me and started being a bully I would tell him to fuck off, not starting being a diplomat.


Also faggot is just a fun word to use, stop getting so anal about it. I would never rape anybody. Shocking that you would think of me gang raping a man. Maybe it's your fantasy my dear friend. Too much projection

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also fucking stop saying st... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 10:30 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Steve: | Reply

also fucking stop saying stuff like "nothing says I'm masculine like..."

I am not like you sorry excuses for a human being. I don't do stuff to prove others I'm masculine. I have my vision of masculinity and right and wrong and I'll behave to conform to it

This is projection in my opinion. It is you that must show that you are confident enough in your masculinity that you tollerate homosexuals. It is you who has to show he is masculine, not me.

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I think a certain degree of... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 10:35 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Steve: | Reply

I think a certain degree of narcissism is healthy. I mean you need to have some basic love for yourself, some kind of respect for yourself. You can't live life completely passive and backing down from something so pathetic like a 17 year old.

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"Women don't like hyper mas... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 11:41 AM | Posted, in reply to wisegirl's comment, by someone: | Reply

"Women don't like hyper masculine men."

It's not confusing at all when women say things like this when in reality masculine men is exactly what they like.

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And again we observe someon... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 2:01 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

And again we observe someone presuming to know what women want/think/like, when he is not a woman and is not sexually successful (which is glaringly obvious). So it really begs the question why does this fool insist on claiming to know anything?

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Oh and if Steve isn't a tro... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 2:02 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Oh and if Steve isn't a troll, then I'm scared IRL. He sounds absolutely insane.

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Don't feed the troll... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 2:30 PM | Posted, in reply to HKB's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Don't feed the troll

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today I don't feel like eat... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 2:45 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

today I don't feel like eating faces. Maybe it was just something that occurred to me after a good workout and reading that article.

Anyway I still think that trying to go all diplomatic to avoid a fight with a 17 year old is faggy as shit. Faggy is just a word, don't get too hung up on it. Call it how you like, despicable, unmanly, cowardly

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I'm going to eat feces inst... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 3:16 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

I'm going to eat feces instead today (like I usually do, actually)

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IF, indeed, Steve isn't a t... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 5:22 PM | Posted by Loatheb: | Reply

IF, indeed, Steve isn't a troll, then he's the next thing to it, another digital exhibitionist spouting whatever nonsense comes to mind on the crowded soap-box top of internet. Provocation might not be his sole purpose but whatever attention his self-absorbed rambling gets him seems to be met with unseemly enthusiasm.

Oh, and Stevie-boy, whatever do you have against 17-year-olds? Only mildly curious here, since you do seem to go on about how terribly "despicable, unmanly, cowardly" it is to not take the chance and beat the living daylights out of one at slightest provocation.

And another thing, one could argue that shouting "Projection! Projection!" at anything resembling critique of one's beliefs is yet another cognitive kill switch.

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Compare Louie to Walt's rea... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 11:12 PM | Posted by Ellie: | Reply

Compare Louie to Walt's reaction in Breaking Bad.

I spent a week home with pneumonia watching the first two seasons of Mad Men and Breaking Bad, alternating episodes. It was an interesting exercise in compare/contrast.

Skyler thinks he won't take action, starts to stomp off after the kids, stops when her son intervenes.
Of course, Skyler isn't aware that Walt's been killing people, mopping up body slurry, etc. So - she may not already know who he is. He's gone to significant lengths to convince her he's someone else.

Sure, Louie's probably more realistic as far as representations of middle class behavior; Walt is Not A Normal Dude. But this is TV land, so may as well pull in some more examples.

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"And again we observe someo... (Below threshold)

September 4, 2010 11:55 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by someone: | Reply

"And again we observe someone presuming to know what women want/think/like, when he is not a woman."

It's been shown over and over again that women say one thing and do another.

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It has been shown over and ... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 12:53 AM | Posted, in reply to someone's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

It has been shown over and over that HUMANS say one thing and do another.

Women do not like hyper masculine men. Women like masculine men, but hypermasculine men are defective/deficient either because of their hypermasculinity, or use hypermasculinity as a cover for overall deficiencies.

Which of these men are attractive to (most/many) women?
Which of these men are hypermasculine?

Jude Law
Brad Pitt
WWF wrestlers
Body builders with roid rage

Which do women tend value more in a man: wit/humor/intelligence, charm, an attractive face/athletic build, assertiveness, confidence... vs ridiculous muscles from steroids, anger and aggression at the slightest provocation?

I mean, speaking of MOST women, in general.

If you think women like "hypermasculine men" it may begin to answer why you have been such an abysmal failure with women, which is obvious from every single post you write.

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"It's been shown over and o... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 12:58 AM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

"It's been shown over and over again that women say one thing and do another."

Means:

"I pathetically fall back on negative stereotypes of women in order to discount anything any woman might say at any given time that I disagree with and to make up excuses for my lack of a normal healthy relationship and/or ability to get laid".

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Same anon as above...... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 12:59 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Same anon as above...

I would at this point in time mention that "hypermasculine" is defined as a man who exaggerates masculine qualities to such a degree that they obscure his humanity, e.g. a body builder on steroids who can't have a civil conversation and exists in perpetual flux with anger and rage, an asshole, a bully, a ridiculously competitive jerk without any tact or class.

The word "hypermasculine" is really a misnomer, "insecure" "weak" and "defective" is probably a better word.

It would be like calling those women who dye their hair platinum blonde with G cup boobs and horrendous collagen lip injections "hyperfeminine". They aren't hyper feminine, they are just insecure and defective human beings without any identity or confidence.

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Good post, but TLP left out... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 6:15 AM | Posted by Dave: | Reply

Good post, but TLP left out the part of the episode where Louie surreptitiously follows the bully home and confronts the bully's parents about what happened. Now that's something I don't imagine would have happened had the bully not been white.

Maybe TLP will analyze that part of the episode in another post.

One general comment about the intimidation factor attributed to African Americans in the post and in some comments. I spent ten years in predominantly black public schools. I don't know if there's something of that experience that influences my behavior, or if I otherwise give the impression that I'm mildly pissed off and know how to handle myself in a fight, but the following experience with young black males tends to happen with me. When walking past one (e.g., as I'm walking in a store and he's walking out) we'll often look each other in the eye and say "what's up" and nod as if we know each other. Of course we don't, but in this case, "what's up" is less a greeting than an expression of mutual respect/lack of aggressive intent.

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Loatheb loatheb loatheb....... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 6:32 AM | Posted, in reply to Loatheb's comment, by Steve: | Reply

Loatheb loatheb loatheb....

I wouldn't attack anybody at the slightest provocation. I would just tell him to fuck off. And if he keep pushing for a fight, he will, at some point, get it.

I don't go out looking for fights but I don't go out wanting to prove my maturity to little shits who want to provoke me. I am sure that telling him to fuck off would suffice, but this is because I'm ready to use excessive amounts of violence if provoked ENOUGH (ENOUGH, not "at the slightest provocation")

Anyway this is just speculation about what would I do in a similar situation, is more likely than not that I would be perceived as a heroic model to the random 17 year old bully. At least when I workout teenagers tend to see me as a hero for my strength and height. People perceive me in real life as heroic and extremely reasonable and calm

I can't tell how I would behave when I will be old and my tremendous strength and speed will be long gone. I may just carry a gun and threaten them, or just shoot them for fun

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Or we have people who claim... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 7:33 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Or we have people who claim that they know what all the women want just because they share the same sex.

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Masculine is a word ... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 8:20 AM | Posted by Jack Coupal: | Reply

Masculine is a word used by feminists to ridicule men. Check out radical feminist literature if you doubt me.

Why do Alone and all the commenters above use the word, "masculine"?

The non-mocking term is manly.

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"I pathetically fall back o... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 9:59 AM | Posted, in reply to HKB's comment, by someone: | Reply

"I pathetically fall back on negative stereotypes of women..."

How is it a negative stereotype that women like masculine men, especially when it's true?

"...in order to discount anything any woman might say at any given time that I disagree with..."

This doesn't make any sense.

"...and to make up excuses for my lack of a normal healthy relationship and/or ability to get laid."

This has nothing to do with my relationships or a lack of them, and I have no interest in getting laid. Try again, princess.

Here's another stereotype: women are emotional to the point of self-parody.

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looking back, have you noti... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 2:08 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

looking back, have you noticed how uncomfortable those wimps got over some aggressive sounding post over the internet?

Grow some balls wimp. You get uncomfortable over some aggressivity over the internet, I can't imagine what kind of lives you lead

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"someone", the negative ste... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 2:33 PM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

"someone", the negative stereotype I was referring to is that women are manipulative, "say one thing and do another", in this case it was used to discount a woman's opinion so that the poster could continue on his way making up shit about what women want for his own purposes. "Wahh women just want hyper-masculine bullies, despite any claims I hear otherwise from actual women." You get to make up a fantasy about why women want nothing to do with you that doesn't insult your ego. It's a pretty transparent defensive mechanism.

"Here's another stereotype: women are emotional to the point of self-parody."
Who or what is this even referring to? Or do you just spout idiotic stereotypes in the direction of women when you're feeling defensive?


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Ya know, there's a big diff... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 3:51 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Ya know, there's a big difference between someone being "masculine" and being "macho". Being "masculine" doesn't mean you're violent or even physically strong - even a man in wheelchair can be very masculine. And sensitive men can be very masculine. That's what Steve doesn't get, he thinks being a bully is equivalent to being masculine...he's making exactly the sort of categorization error that both the bully and Louis CK are making in that scene. Why? Because neither have the resources to act like an adult and this is what divides the boys from the men. Masculine behavior is adult male behavior, not the juvenile behavior so many boys in adult bodies think it is.

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Adults behave like adults a... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 4:45 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

Adults behave like adults around other adults. If you are out having fun and a dipshit 17 years old starts verbally abusing you, why the fuck should you waste time being an adult with him and using diplomacy?

I have nothing to prove to a stupid 17 yo asshole. I'm going to tell him to fuck off, ignore him, and beat the shit out of him if he attacks me. IF HE ATTACKS ME. This part seem to fly over your head

maybe you guys just need to feel better about yourself. As you feel threatened by aggressivity and physical strength you need to believe I can't behave like an adult to feel better about yourself

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Also I love how you call me... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 4:47 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

Also I love how you call me a bully because I am willing to beat the shit out of somebody who is attacking me physically.

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louie was pretending to be ... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 5:15 PM | Posted by vanveen: | Reply

louie was pretending to be someone he's not: the type of man who tells kids to knock it off ''or else''. the kid decided louie didnt have an ''or else'' and called him on it: ''you're not who you're pretending to be,'' said the kid, and he was right.

the ''identity bluff'' occurred before the kid even came over to the table.


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someone is ghostwriting for... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 5:15 PM | Posted by rontom: | Reply

someone is ghostwriting for TLP. I want him back!

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"someone", the negative ste... (Below threshold)

September 5, 2010 9:56 PM | Posted, in reply to HKB's comment, by someone: | Reply

"someone", the negative stereotype I was referring to is that women are manipulative, "say one thing and do another", in this case it was used to discount a woman's opinion so that the poster could continue on his way making up shit about what women want for his own purposes."

I have no "purposes." Women claim they want wimpy, sensitive niceguys whereas in reality they want masculine men. That has nothing whatsoever to do with me.

"Wahh women just want hyper-masculine bullies, despite any claims I hear otherwise from actual women."

I don't give a shit what they claim.

"You get to make up a fantasy about why women want nothing to do with you that doesn't insult your ego. It's a pretty transparent defensive mechanism."

I have no interactions with women, so it's completely illogical to say that they want nothing to do with me (that would require that we are interacting). Try again.

"Who or what is this even referring to?"

Women.

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"I have no interactions wit... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 1:26 AM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

"I have no interactions with women, so it's completely illogical to say that they want nothing to do with me (that would require that we are interacting)."

So you acknowledge that everyone can completely disregard anything you have to say about women, as you have no basis for your claims. Therefore this:

"Women claim they want wimpy, sensitive niceguys whereas in reality they want masculine men."

is based on your own delusions about women, probably complimented by whatever shit media you are consuming.

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Someone has revealed himsel... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 2:11 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Someone has revealed himself to be uber pathetic. He freely admits he has "no interest" in getting laid and has "no interactions" with women... yet he OBVIOUSLY holds a massive bias against "women" (as if they were some amorphous entity?). Sounds to me as if his lack of desire to get laid and lack of interactions with women are anything but volitional. If they were, the anger and bitterness and stereotypes wouldn't be quite as furious.

PS who ever said women liked wimpy sensitive nice guys? WHat in the hell? I would at this point in time mention that most guys who describe themselves as "sensitive nice guys" are FAAAAR from, they are usually passive aggressive failed narcissists/failed alpha males, they only think about themselves, they are extremely shallow and superficial, they have no interest in any sort of relationship with a woman (and only want to use her as an object for entertainment), and they basically offer WAAAY less than their perceived polar opposite (the "hypermasculine bully jerk").

The self described "nice guy" usually is EXACTLY the same guy as the "hypermasculine jerk" with the exception that he is a gigantic failure at it, he is weak and lacks any assertiveness and is physically pathetic, and so is shunted into skulking in the background plotting how to obtain rohypnol and such.

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Agreed. If "someone" has no... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 3:28 AM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

Agreed. If "someone" has no interest in getting laid or having relationships with women the last thing he would be doing would be commenting on some random, unrelated blog post to essentially vent about how women don't like him because he's just TOO fucking nice or sexy or fill-in-the-blank with a positive characteristic that he identifies with. He's either trying to convince us that he's just some gay guy who takes serious interest in what type of guys women want for some reason, or he thinks he's fooling us by pretending to be some kind of asexual outsider, an observer of women who has obtained objective truths about how they are manipulative, over-emotional "princesses" who only want muscle-men boyfriends. Jesus christ, people get dumped and rejected all the time, you don't have to take it out on all of womankind anonymously on the internet. If you can't get or a keep a girlfriend it is because you are an asshole, not because you can't fight or because you're too fucking "nice". It's as simple as that. Sorry, not all women are the same. Some women want masculine guys, some women want "wimpy" guys. Being "not masculine enough" IS NOT the barrier to a relationship, it's being a misogynist asshole who no one wants to be around.

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Steve,I'm not gett... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 9:29 AM | Posted by GT: | Reply

Steve,

I'm not getting something. If you are as big and strong as you claim in your posts. If you have mastered the fighting art of kicking someone with your fists, if you are so "powerful" I don't get why you respond in the way that you do. You call out wimp, faggot and write about breaking ribs and ripping faces off and how people have backed down from you.

For someone in such a position of "power" you seem to go to great lengths to show that power. You display, insult, and talk down to people yet think, because you haven't actually hurt anyone, that you are a mellow nice guy. I've met people like you. I avoid people like you. I'll go so far as to say most normal people would avoid you. Those that can't will manage their interactions with you to minimize their association with you.

I've met trained military personnel who have real combat experience and have killed. I've met law enforcement officer who are trained SWAT and have killed in the line of duty. They don't act like you do.

Rudeness is the weak man's imitation of strength.

How old are you anyway? And for someone who is so powerful and potentially deadly, why do you come here and even care about the musings of some anonymous shrink?

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great lengths = posting on ... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 10:58 AM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

great lengths = posting on the comments of an internet site. Yeah

Look I read this site because it's interesting and enjoyable to me. When I read the article, those violent ideas flashed to me and I posted them because I thought them funny and violence rocks.

Your badass friends are badass and I respect them. I wonder how they would react if a dipshit 17 yo started harassing them in public.

I talk about kicking ass and how people backed down from me because it's badass and cool. Wouldn't you be happy to have people trying shit and then backing down quickly? I say it's pretty cool and worthy of celebration. Considering I didn't have to smash their faces, even if violence rocks I prefer solving stuff with no use of excessive strength if not necessary. I am willing to use it though.

Also how exactly do you think I behave in public? I'm curious.

Finally, yes I'm powerful and potentially deadly. I am allowed to have other interests beside beating people up? Or, because I can be aggressive and physichally imposing, must conform to a vision of a dumb brute with no interests beside sports and beating people to make you feel better about yourself and your scrawny ass body?

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saying women want manly men... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 11:05 AM | Posted, in reply to HKB's comment, by Steve: | Reply

saying women want manly men is like saying men want feminine women. It's true, and the exceptions don't make it false

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Actually, if you say "women... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 11:41 AM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by A Girl: | Reply

Actually, if you say "women want manly men," then it only takes one woman who wants something else to make it false.

"Most women" however ... then the exceptions wont make it false. But it's still just your opinion, unless you have some sort of a demographical study to back it up. So to be really safe, you write "most women I know" (or all) and no one can prove you wrong :)

On another note, then I've found it interesting that no one seems to consider that what a woman will desire may not necessarily be the same thing as she'll take home to marry.

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Actually, great lengths = r... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 12:27 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by GT: | Reply

Actually, great lengths = repeatedly emphasized over and over.

You write, "violence rocks" and "badass and cool" and people backing down is "cool and worthy of celebration." Your writing implies to me that you are very, very young. At least, regardless of your age, very very immature and full of anger and rage. I noticed how you failed to answer my age question.

My friends are "bad ass" as you write. They are trained professionals who have done what you fantasize about. They don't get 17yo white middle class punks in their face because they have that aura about them. Besides, they deal with real threats.

How you act in public? No idea.

My scrawny ass body? How would you know? Just curious. Besides, ending your post with a blind insult only emphasize what I wrote before:

Rudeness is the weak mans imitation of strength.

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yeah, I have that aura too,... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 12:46 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

yeah, I have that aura too, people don't mess with me

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girls desire manly men and ... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 1:28 PM | Posted, in reply to A Girl's comment, by Steve: | Reply

girls desire manly men and marry wimps because they are scared they can't keep the manly man faithful, or they CAN'T get a manly man to commit to them.

Also I don't need to add all those disclaimers like "most women" or whatever. Every asshole would know that by saying "women want...." I'm making a generalization which is valid for the great majority of females

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Steve, as a woman who has k... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 1:48 PM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

Steve, as a woman who has known women, I have NEVER heard another woman express to me that she likes "manly men", masculine men, strong men, etc. It's not on the radar for a lot of women. Why? because it has nothing to do with us. WTF do I care if a guy is intimidating to other men, it has nothing to do with me. We don't exist in he type of culture where women need to be protected by men. There is simply no benefit to it. If anything it just makes me want to get away from that guy, because I don't want his macho insecurity to turn on me. I'm not saying their aren't women who say they want masculine/manly men, I'm just saying they're not even the majority, so it's a generalization not worth making.

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In Russia there are hordes ... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 1:51 PM | Posted by Me: | Reply

In Russia there are hordes of urban and country youngsters (gOpniki) acting exactly like this trying to extort people's mobiles and mp3-players. Someone sweettalks to a passerby, very friendly and amicable, while the others surround the victim, silent but very-very noticeable. In the end the victim will hand-over his mobile and repeat loudly "I gladly give it to you as a present!" several times for all the witnesses to clearly hear his enthusiastic consent. In Russian it's called "otzhat'" like "off-squeeze" or "off-press"
The only way out of it is act rude, like _you are not friends at all_ and be prepared to fight.

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The proper response would b... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 2:18 PM | Posted by Chiara: | Reply

The proper response would be to not play the game at all. Someone with obviously malicious intentions walks up to you and wants to shake your hand, you DO NOT shake their hand. You hold them steadily in your gaze and don't let go, and you let them know that you know what they're doing, that you are their SENIOR and you aren't playing. And although right now you are purposely remaining calm, you are potentially scary. And if he tries to start a fight, you say, "I'm not gonna fight you, man. This isn't happening, man. Nope."

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HKB: "So you acknowledge th... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 3:29 PM | Posted by someone: | Reply

HKB: "So you acknowledge that everyone can completely disregard anything you have to say about women, as you have no basis for your claims."

So what you're saying is that that modern forms of mass communication -- such as the Internet -- do not exist. Ok.

"Is based on your own delusions about women, probably complimented by whatever shit media you are consuming."

No, it's based on women saying one thing and doing another.

Anonymous: "Someone has revealed himself to be uber pathetic. He freely admits he has "no interest" in getting laid and has "no interactions" with women... yet he OBVIOUSLY holds a massive bias against "women" (as if they were some amorphous entity?)."

What "bias?" You're not making any sense.

"Sounds to me as if his lack of desire to get laid and lack of interactions with women are anything but volitional."

And you would be wrong.

"If they were, the anger and bitterness and stereotypes wouldn't be quite as furious."

What anger and bitterness? Now you're just making things up.

"PS who ever said women liked wimpy sensitive nice guys?"

Women.

HKB: "Agreed. If "someone" has no interest in getting laid or having relationships with women the last thing he would be doing would be commenting on some random, unrelated blog post to essentially vent about how women don't like him because he's just TOO fucking nice or sexy or fill-in-the-blank with a positive characteristic that he identifies with."

I've never said or implied anything like this.

"Jesus christ, people get dumped and rejected all the time, you don't have to take it out on all of womankind anonymously on the internet."

I've never been dumped or rejected.

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hkb I think you have a fuck... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 3:51 PM | Posted, in reply to HKB's comment, by Steve: | Reply

hkb I think you have a fucked up notion of manly. Since when manly = insecure macho? That's not what we are talking about.

usually manly men are calm and collected, they don't start shit to prove something. But they are willing to stand up for themselves and kick some ass if necessary.

And... "benefits"... what the hell are you talking about.... are you attracted or you choose who to screw based on the benefits? Are you a whore?

Men are attracted to nice tits and nice asses, but do we have a use for it? No, it's just a matter of primitive instincts. The same for women and their attraction to manliness

When a woman thinks about what she would like in a man, she maybe doesn't think about manliness as a requisite. But once they meet a manly man, they will feel attracted.

Of course there are various level of manliness, just like there are various level of female beauty. A dude doesn't have to be a super badass ass kicker to be manly enough to be attractive.

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Having politely asked the y... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 4:09 PM | Posted by Mad Jack: | Reply

Having politely asked the young cretins to keep their noise down, you simply sit and wait for the chosen one to either keep the noise down or challenge your authority. Once the chimpanzee approached the table and started up, the response is to rise and suggest that he really doesn't want to do anything like this inside and tear the place up. Better to go outside.

Once outside you use whatever it takes to win. In actuality, most fights end with two or three punches thrown and nasty words exchanged. That's it - the fight's over.

Alternately, if you're like me (old, fat and ugly as the back end of a bus) and find yourself in a confrontation with a steroid using idiot, you just pull your gat and ask the would-be assailant if he'd like to pray first. Invariably the assailants will leave, cursing you. If they don't, shoot one in the knee. The rest will run like hell.

As far as the girl's opinion, I never really cared or considered it. She'll have one, it will likely be uninformed and center around some kind of mutually agreed upon non-aggression pact involving self-images and disenfranchised minorities who really want to be kitten-loving vegetarian moon-bats, but who are not because of a low self-image.

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Correction: you do NOT have... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 4:57 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by GT: | Reply

Correction: you do NOT have their aura. Do not fool yourself, do not flatter yourself. You are no where near the caliber of man that they are. Some of them are women and trust me, you can't even hold a candle to them either.

Don't kid yourself and stop this fantasy of being on the same level as they are. You insult them and embarrass yourself.

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women, ahahahaahah... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 5:09 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

women, ahahahaahah

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I have that aura. I get the... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 5:11 PM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

I have that aura. I get the admiration of men and women alike, effortlessly. Maybe you male badass friend are better than me, who said anything about having the same exact aura? Maybe their Power Level is higher, who the fuck knows.

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OMG, Power level? OK..... I... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 5:37 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by GT: | Reply

OMG, Power level? OK..... Is this World of Warcraft or Halo you play? I give up. What video games are you really into????????

You are so busted!

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"We think we can fool women... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 6:09 PM | Posted by DCF: | Reply

"We think we can fool women for the same reason a 3 year old thinks he can manipulate his parents: sometimes they let us because they were going to do it anyway."

If there was ever a single sentence that summed up the PUA community, this is it.

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"There's a sense that black... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 6:13 PM | Posted by DCF: | Reply

"There's a sense that blacks are violently unpredictable, that's what TV told me, anyway. You know that white kid in the Louie clip isn't going to murder you with the same certainty that you know this black kid might murder you."

Oh please, don't act like this is some media creation. It's not a black/white thing, but it's a neighborhood/income thing. If you're playing the odds, the black kid is from one where respect is all many people around them have and they will defend it to extremes.

And on a broader scale:

"African Americans were arrested more than any other race for murder in 2008, making up 36% of all arrests. African Americans, constituting approximately 12% of the general population, were significantly overrepresented in the total arrests made."

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Steve, I saw a guy who remi... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 9:00 PM | Posted by HKB: | Reply

Steve, I saw a guy who reminded me of you. He was walking around punching and kicking random objects in his path. He punched a cup full of liquid off the top of a trash can. Then he kicked over a grocery cart. Then he kicked a can on the ground. He didn't even appear angry but rather quite calm. It was a deliberate and pointless display of physical aggression. He undoubtedly thinks of his manliness as "calm and collected" and irresistible to women. I was the opposite of attracted. I thought he was ridiculous like you.
Out of curiosity, how old are you?

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GT I understand where you'r... (Below threshold)

September 6, 2010 9:48 PM | Posted, in reply to GT's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

GT I understand where you're coming from, I wanted to take apart Steve's comments too, but seriously, read what he's saying.

He talks about how he wants to eat someones face.

He talks about his power level (dragon ball Z?)

He talks about his incredible speed and strength.

Basically everything he says is fucking ridiculous. I know it's satisfying to put together a logical argument, taking apart all the nonsense he's spouting, but he's either deliberately trolling or insane. Don't give him an opportunity to write up a ridiculous post about his amazing killing prowess or how he gets stronger when people make him angry or whatever.

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"I have that aura. I get th... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 12:25 AM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by TygerTyger: | Reply

"I have that aura. I get the admiration of men and women alike, effortlessly."

Just curious, how do "men and women alike" express their admiration for you? Flattery? Imitation? Applause? Or is it stunned silence?
It is possible that your "aura" is less "manly," and more "ticking time bomb." Most people *are* a bit differential in such situations - easier to let the noise "go in one ear, and out the other."

Re: What "Women" want
For a guy appreciative of/interested in mental health issues, you seem ignorant of the fact that there are actually quite a few variables that go an individual woman's choice of husband/partner.
If you are already convinced that all women want macho men, then you will find a way pre-screening all female contacts in order to make this true. You have made it abundantly clear you consider yourself to be an authority on women - I don't doubt that you surround yourself with women that conform to your ideas. In fact, a woman with a strong sense of self would never tolerate such disrespect, and be off your radar before she even registered at all.

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except I never acted like t... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 6:25 AM | Posted, in reply to HKB's comment, by Steve: | Reply

except I never acted like that in my whole life. You seem to equate manliness to asshole bullies knocking stuff over.

I am the most peaceful being in existence. But I'm willing to fight if provoked enough, or at least stand up for myself.

Is this equal to going around tossing stuff over? What is your point? MY point is that I would fight an asshole like him, not being an asshole.

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Do you really wish to ask m... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 6:39 AM | Posted, in reply to TygerTyger's comment, by Steve: | Reply

Do you really wish to ask me that question? After all my boasting? Well, since you asked, all you said. People come to me saying flattering things. They also admire me silently, it seems I draw attention everywhere I go if I'm on decent shape. Females and often males(gays? Or are they admiring me too?) just keep looking and glancing at me, if they do not outright stare at me.

They can't be scared since people come to me to small talk or women approach me from time to time to make appreciative remarks. And I behave in the most gentle and friendly way possible all the time.

You may be really misunderstanding how I behave in peaceful situations. Since people already celebrate my (perceived and exaggerated) badassness and strength I have no need or desire to act aggressively

I am just willing to fight a bully or confront people if I need to stand up for myself. It seems this is some kind of macho insecure posturing for you? Sorry it that makes you feel threatened, maybe I can chop off my balls to make you feel better about yourself madam?

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Dragon Ball Z? My other gue... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 9:44 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by GT: | Reply

Dragon Ball Z? My other guess was Mortal Kombat but then again, I don't really know much about video games.

Anyway, you are right. But by responding to his posts I was also processing some of my own inner "garbage" when it comes to being strong and dangerous and using strength and anger to mask my pain. It wasn't until he mentioned "power level" that it finally dawned on me I'm really wasting my time with him.

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Why don't you tell us more ... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 10:27 AM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

Why don't you tell us more about your inner garbage? I am genuinely interested

And yes power levels are from dragon ball z

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so I was right about the pr... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 10:38 AM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

so I was right about the projection thing. People found something pathologic in what I said because they themselves have problems regarding strength and physical aggression.

Well anyway I have no pain to mask, as I said people tend to keep me in high regard and admiration, probably more than I am worthy of. It's just that I love myself and I think violence is funny and enjoyable and I like to celebrate these things.

Regardless I am curious to hear about your inner pain and your disfunctional attitude towards the use of violence.

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This site is going downhill... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 11:32 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

This site is going downhill fast. Alone doesn't proofread his posts anymore and the commenters have gone from morons to flat out trolls.

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The number of comments on t... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 11:40 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

The number of comments on this post is incredible. It seems everyone either wants to claim this is somehow racist or talk about their own interest in violence. Why are we missing the point? Hopefully Alone will write a new post soon and this lunacy can end.

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You probably behave in publ... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 12:11 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by anon: | Reply

You probably behave in public the same way you behave in your comments here. Pathetically immature, loud, obnoxious, and clearly in need of pulling your head out of your ass and getting over yourself.

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You are wrong about project... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 2:26 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by GT: | Reply

You are wrong about projection. Please find out what the definition is before throwing it around.

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"I think violence is funny ... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 3:02 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by TygerTyger: | Reply

"I think violence is funny and enjoyable and I like to celebrate these things."

I'll admit, there *are* times when observing violence can be funny - in a very dark, "what a moron" sort of way. I, personally, have never understood why people kill in the name of Jesus Christ - *what morons*, don't they *know* that he was, like, a *really* peaceful individual? WTF? What part of "turn the other cheek" led to the Pope having his own army (Middle Ages. (dry laugh).
I suppose you could make the argument that violence is, by its very nature, a poor way to problem solve, and therefore ridiculous. Ex: Two women fighting over some deadbeat who doesn't deserve the time of day.

I suppose, in the context of the WWF, or similar, violence could be funny, FOR ADULTS.

Really though, Steve: You have made statements about women that are provably false. I know that not all women want macho guys because *surprise* I *am* a woman, and I can't stomach them.

That being said, I *am* aware of them - oh, I don't stare, but if someone is hopped up on testosterone, physically large, talking loudly, and throwing out Alpha behaviors left and right, then people *are* going to take notice. Beta males will seek approval, weaker females will cluster. Think Tarzan.
It has been my experience though, that most of us quietly monitor - perhaps without even being aware that we are don't so - because who knows what this guy is going to do? He could start a fight, start swinging from tree branches, ect.

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Hey Steve,Give all t... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 3:14 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Hey Steve,
Give all that you've written about what you thing you know about women I HAVE to ask:

Are you a virgin?

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ahaahah. I behave the exact... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 4:39 PM | Posted, in reply to TygerTyger's comment, by Steve: | Reply

ahaahah. I behave the exact opposite of that in real life. That's exactly the sort of jerk I would stand up against.

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I agree mostly with most of... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 5:43 PM | Posted, in reply to Themis's comment, by rational: | Reply

I agree mostly with most of your points, Themis. I'm a woman and not a fighter at all, but when I taught high school in the inner city for 12 years, I backed down plenty of 17 year olds who were trying to dominate me. As you say, it is staying calm, taking control of the communication and a third thing--you have to know that you will take it farther than the other person. IOW, I always felt that my career depended on hanging tough and being Irish, maybe, I don't back down well in any circumstance. The students, even the psychos, knew they would have to go to the mat to dominate me and none ever pushed it that far, although one guy ran out of the room screaming 'bitch,' but that was points for me.

However, with black girls I usually let them 'dominate' me in the conversation out in the hall, at which they were usually so flummoxed they could then here what I was requesting them to do.
Actually, three things are always real: sex, violence, and kids.

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Somehow, I doubt that witho... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 10:24 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Somehow, I doubt that without Steve this post would generate such an interesting and compelling discussion on douchebaggery. Douchebaggery has become a serious problem in this nation, which I believe Alone is desperately trying to find the root cause of, and solution to, by virtue of these very commentary threads. Having not read anything on narcissism and violence for some time, this post is actually an excellent piece for revitalizing that topic. Thank you, Alone, for providing a forum for airs to be deposed into physical writing - if only fleetingly real as the Internet exists as a tool.

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god damn i wish i had someb... (Below threshold)

September 7, 2010 11:12 PM | Posted by antoboyo: | Reply

god damn i wish i had somebody to discuss this article with. no offense to you guys, but you're all easily distracted and pushing your own specific bullshit agendas

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"Well anyway I have no pain... (Below threshold)

September 8, 2010 8:37 AM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

"Well anyway I have no pain to mask, as I said people tend to keep me in high regard and admiration, probably more than I am worthy of. It's just that I love myself and I think violence is funny and enjoyable and I like to celebrate these things."

Dude, the more you talk the more you make yourself look like a sociopath (nice try with the false modesty though, however it's so clearly insincere in the context of what you've written so far that it really doesn't fly).

It's pretty funny to watch Steve go actually....a bit like the Emperor's new clothes, except the only person who doesn't think he's naked is the emperor, who's busy ruling his imaginary kingdom wearing his imaginary finery. By ruling I mean trolling the web, of course. I highly suspect Steve has only ever really "experienced" violence in movies or playing RPGs...imaginary violence for an imaginary hero really. Difference between a boy and a man really....boys "love violence" and the sense of power it gives them if they have no other more sophisticated means of gaining power, men understand violence, physical force and the dynamics of power, and the difference between out of control violence and in-control use of physical force, and use it judiciously as a tool of last resort in a way that minimizes the violence.

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Dave, it has to do with tre... (Below threshold)

September 8, 2010 9:21 AM | Posted, in reply to Dave's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Dave, it has to do with treating other people as humans worthy of respect and being able to look them in the eye. You're not automatically afraid just because they're black or trying to hide covert racism.

America's got a very weird relationship with racism - a large part of that seems to be because it directly contradicts the American Dream/myth of America being a classless society where people make it (meaning become wealthy) because of their intrinsic value and not context and privilege. Sure some people with real talent and motivation do succeed but there's less of them than there are talentless hacks who are only "successful" due to privilege and nepotism. Of course, it's really more about class than race (in general, the middle class - or petit bourgeoisie - is very much concerned with appearances, manners and trying to distance themselves from classes lower than they now are and align themselves with ones they aspire to... Of course, truly rich people, aka "the ruling class", don't actually play by the rules they tell the middle class they need to follow).

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I don't really think Steve ... (Below threshold)

September 8, 2010 11:13 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by medsvstherapy: | Reply

I don't really think Steve has the stamina or interest to carry on very long. An attempt to ban him might just backfire and keep him pestering around a bit longer than he will otherwise.

In a totally unrelated matter: it is not a good idea to argue with fools - they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience.

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"In a totally unrelated mat... (Below threshold)

September 8, 2010 5:05 PM | Posted, in reply to medsvstherapy's comment, by TygerTyger: | Reply

"In a totally unrelated matter: it is not a good idea to argue with fools - they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience."

Personally, I like to watch FOX "News" once in a while. It reminds me what I'm up against; and the US makes more sense at election time ;)

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I can't believe how people ... (Below threshold)

September 9, 2010 7:08 AM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

I can't believe how people got so upset over obvious exaggerations like the eating faces, kicks from the punches and power level stuff. You guys need to get a grip on yourself. Unless you simply enjoy getting angry over the Internet.

I want to clarify something before stopping discussing this. Acting like a macho in real life is a sign of unmanliness and too much estrogens in your body. Testosterone dripping manly men such as myself are more aloof and peaceful. Until they have to stand up against something.

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You mean video game playing... (Below threshold)

September 9, 2010 9:33 AM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

You mean video game playing virgins such as yourself, right? You must just now be getting up to get ready for school based on the time stamp for your post.

Go study hard and be sure to complete your homework. The weekends are always good to read ahead into the next chapter so you can be better prepared to discuss the material in class.

And don't worry about the virginity part....we all get laid eventually.

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time stamp? I'm Italian. Th... (Below threshold)

September 9, 2010 10:27 AM | Posted by Steve: | Reply

time stamp? I'm Italian. That's why it looks like I'm posting at early hours. Time zones: it must be a mind blowing concept for you.

as for the rest of your post, feel free to imagine me however you like

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I'm sure you'll understand ... (Below threshold)

September 9, 2010 12:57 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

I'm sure you'll understand this child: I use the power of grey skull to silence your Dragon Ball Z!!!

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"My name is get out of my f... (Below threshold)

September 10, 2010 5:01 PM | Posted by For Christ's Sake: | Reply

"My name is get out of my fucking face." If he doesn't, stick him with your butter knife. If the bitch you are with gives you any shit, tell her to "eat shit and die you fucking cunt." Then find someone worth dating.

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Your strategy sounds pretty... (Below threshold)

September 11, 2010 11:35 AM | Posted, in reply to For Christ's Sake's comment, by Jack Coupal: | Reply

Your strategy sounds pretty good.

But, what if your local fast food restaurant - like the one Louie is at - is out of butter knives? You can always carry one in your pocket, or ask the dude to wait while you go home to get one.

By the time you get back, though, the dude and your girl are long gone. Now, you have some quiet time for yourself.

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Just tear a splinter of woo... (Below threshold)

September 11, 2010 11:59 AM | Posted, in reply to Jack Coupal's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Just tear a splinter of wood out of the table or floor and use that as a weapon instead.

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You decide to act like a bi... (Below threshold)

September 13, 2010 11:53 AM | Posted, in reply to Jack Coupal's comment, by For Christ's Sake's : | Reply

You decide to act like a big shot and ask some one to keep it down. The punk calls your bluff. You can take his shit for as long as he wants to humiliate you, and like it or not, it's going to have an impact on your relationship with the woman you are with - probably negative. Or you can make it clear to him, even if you're 100 years old, that you aren't taking his shit, you don't give a fuck what it's going to cost you; you are one crazy bastard and fuck him. Chances are he backs down, but if he doesn't, you make certain you damage him before he puts you down. If the bitch you are with doesn't like it, fuck her.

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Ahhh. Back in high school ... (Below threshold)

September 16, 2010 4:53 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Ahhh. Back in high school I talked down a bully who was much more aggressive than that, but in a crowded lunch room: "I'll crush your skull!"

It was pretty hilarious even then. :D

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The video isn't available t... (Below threshold)

September 20, 2010 12:47 AM | Posted by Reid: | Reply

The video isn't available to the public any more.

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Disgusting.I've pl... (Below threshold)

October 16, 2010 12:57 AM | Posted by Anon: | Reply

Disgusting.

I've played "nice boy, roll over" a few times because I didn't want to get in a fight where the other guy would end up in the ER or dead.

In your vaunted, megalomaniacal perspective where everyone but you is a narcissist does it ever occur that sometimes impressing the chick is really not very important compared to avoiding the mess of blood and police reports?

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Some sanity! Thank you. T... (Below threshold)

October 17, 2010 6:02 PM | Posted, in reply to Anon's comment, by Mich: | Reply

Some sanity! Thank you. Too many insecure, chest-beating little boys around here.

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ah ah ahYeah, beca... (Below threshold)

October 18, 2010 6:42 AM | Posted, in reply to Anon's comment, by Steve: | Reply

ah ah ah

Yeah, because you fighting would result in a mess of blood, death, hospitalization, and the anti-riot police showing up.

And then you call other megalomaniacs.

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anon,I was agreein... (Below threshold)

November 5, 2010 5:13 PM | Posted, in reply to Steve's comment, by Mich: | Reply

anon,

I was agreeing with you.

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Bel Kaufman's "Sunday in th... (Below threshold)

November 6, 2010 1:20 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Bel Kaufman's "Sunday in the Park."

This episode in 4 pages.

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I can't see the video, it's... (Below threshold)

December 2, 2010 7:47 AM | Posted by loloxthelolofarn: | Reply

I can't see the video, it's private.
Why did you put it here if people can't see it?

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late in saying it, but stev... (Below threshold)

December 14, 2010 4:46 PM | Posted by cliffton: | Reply

late in saying it, but steve you're a retard. I don't need to clarify that, your posts do a fine job.

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The video is from the show ... (Below threshold)

March 15, 2011 8:15 PM | Posted by thundt: | Reply

The video is from the show Louie, Season 1, Episode 9, "Bully".
http://www.tv.com/louie/bully/episode/1352139/summary.html
The scene in question starts at 6:00.

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Thanks, thundt!... (Below threshold)

May 18, 2011 6:08 AM | Posted by loloxthelolofarn: | Reply

Thanks, thundt!

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Americans are caught up in ... (Below threshold)

June 22, 2011 6:52 AM | Posted by AMH: | Reply

Americans are caught up in a desire for authenticity to the extent that they don't actually care about it at all. What Americans desire is what is fake, because what is fake *costs*. It's a sign of wealth.

I don't like the posts about men are X or women are Y because those pronouncements don't jive with my life. The women I know are similar in that they wear women's clothes. And that's it.

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i got dragged by the hair d... (Below threshold)

June 3, 2012 6:15 PM | Posted by lacey allen: | Reply

i got dragged by the hair down the town centre and im 22 and the wee girl was 13, since then ive been beaten by all her mates,im so useless at fighting and now i cant even go near the wee bitches cause they no im a ragdoll,and the worst beating was when i had a tight tight skirt high heels and couldnt walk never mind run so the girl swung me down dragged me for ages and everytime i got up i shuffled for a wee bit then she dragged me back again

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"Universal agreement: no o... (Below threshold)

February 22, 2013 11:51 AM | Posted by Orionxl: | Reply

"Universal agreement: no one would think any less of you for backing down from a 17 yo black teen than if you backed down from a grizzly bear. "Dude, a grizzly bear tried to eat me, so I just gave him my lunch!" The hell you say."

I keep seeing this theme as I read through your stuff. You're attributing this to fear but it's more about white people viewing black teens acting out as basically retarded people who can't help it. I'm not saying that's right but the question to ask might be "is it worth beating up or getting beaten up by this retarded kid to have to deal with this noise problem?" The answer is almost always no.

As Al Pacino says in some movie or another in regards to a tough guy who's beneath him "maybe I don't remember the last time I blew my nose either." Yes, some white people are just scared of all black men but usually they pity them for being frozen in the system and hate them for the freedom that gives them.

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Definitely wish I'd gotten ... (Below threshold)

February 25, 2013 5:17 AM | Posted by DD: | Reply

Definitely wish I'd gotten in on this thread earlier, as I found the comments to be fairly interesting. Most of it though is quite obviously posturing from a bunch of internet tough guys who've never been in a real fight.

I'm a black guy in my early 30s. 5'10" and 210 pounds of solid muscle. I don't look like the type of guy you'd want to pick for a fight. Yet, there's about a zero percent chance I'd take it upon myself to call the kids out and potentially put myself in the situation Louie did. Why? Because I've had my ass kicked before. I've probably been in close to 50 fights in my life before, most of them when I was younger. I hit puberty early, so I've always been one of the bigger guys around, but I still lost enough of them to make an impact. And the one thing I've taken it away from it all is that none of us really have any idea how tough someone is until we get them into a fight.

I've beat the crap out of guys who were taller and had thirty pounds on me, but who had no heart and/or a weak chin. I've also had my ass kicked by a scrawny white kid who I later found out had been training with his dad, a semi-pro boxer, since he was five. Many kids roaming the streets today carry knives or guns, or have a bunch of guys hanging around as "backup" just a few feet or maybe just a bar or two away. Others are involved in MMA or have been training in martial arts since they were kids.

Most of the tough-guys posting here are idiots. If you don't like the noise level or the quality of characters at the bar you're hanging at, then get the fuck up and go somewhere else. That would be the smart thing to do. It's the height of narcissism to think you have any right to anything, especially some degree of quiet, while you're out in public. The only reason most people don't truly know that is because they've never had their ass kicked before.

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Emassengly I got beat up ,r... (Below threshold)

May 31, 2013 10:29 AM | Posted by Bruce: | Reply

Emassengly I got beat up ,right after giving my wife my usual how tough I am speech ,and that is why she wants me posting this .I have always been a braggert and big mouth around my friends and especially my wife to impress her and my friends ,knowing that even though I was a big guy ,I had never won a fight and even lost one in school to a 13 yr old girl when I was 15 on the school yard ,But believed by using my size as I got older ,I would look tough and smaller men would back down ,untill a few days ago ,when my wife and I were out shopping ,and a boy maybe 16 ,made a remark about my wifes big breasts ,as he walked by us in the mall,Well he being half my size and just a kid ,I thought I would again show off in front of my wife ,and grabbed the kids shoulder ,my first mistake ,and before I could get out ,dont ever talk to my wife like that again I found myself wobbly and dizy as this boy hit me with a side kick on the side of my head.I attemted to swing at him ,but felt a hard punch on my eye ,as I went down on my ass right there onthe mall floor ,as the boy laughted and jumped on my chest and started slapping my face an saying okay big mouth what are you going to do now .I looked up at my wife expecting to see her in schock or at least yelling at the boy ,but instead she was laughing and saying finally your getting what you deserve.The boy looked up at wife and said sorry mam ,but he shouldnt have touched me ,and again to my shock ,my wife said keep going so my husband can show veryone here just how tough he is ,and laughted .I tried getting up ,but he would just slapme down ,and now fear started to over take me ,as he hit me a couple more times as people were gathered around and to as far as my wife as concerned really got her satisfation ,when I couldnt help from starting to cry and beg him not to hit me any more,The boy said fine ,now tell these people what a little sissy coward you are and specially admit it to your wife ,right now or I will knock you out cold right here .I couldnt et it out fast enough ,before he finallygot offme and said to my wife I would get your little big mouthed coward home and put some panties on him .The crowd clapped and laughted as my wife said I may just do that .Wll I have never lived it down and now my wife knows the truth ,and mkes me aware of it every day ,and I now kepmy mouth shut

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ON my honeymoon, while we w... (Below threshold)

May 31, 2013 2:49 PM | Posted by Laura Looch: | Reply

ON my honeymoon, while we were discussing South African politics with a very nice Tsonga man, an unhappy white soldier who took a dislike to my husband (it happens) hit him over the eye with a beer bottle. I immediately enlisted the assistance of HUGE Tsonga friend, who grabbed my hubby and walked him out of the bar and a distance away. Well, you know, he couldn't hold him all night---and when he let hubby go, blood having been trickling into hubby's mouth the whole time, Jac turned his ass around, ran back to the bar, saw soldier boy sitting on a stool. Soldier boy smiled as if expecting hubby to talk s##* to him. Hubby doesn't do that. He ran up, wasting no momentum, and clocked him off his stool and proceeded to make a visit to the plastic surgeon necessary...so I found out about hubby's mettle on our honeymoon. Now we have a 4 year old son and we will have to tell him: If you know it's coming, if your gut tells you it's coming, don't waste time talking kak or waiting for him to "throw the first punch." GO in fast, go in mean, go in ruthless. But the large majority of situations can be de-escalated with no loss of face on either side with humor. Show some wit, and you raise the stakes. Most bullies would rather be beaten half to death than made fun of in front of others. If you show just a glimpse of the rapier side of your wit and smile gently, you will probably end it all right there. Deflection with threat. That very first question should not have been answered. "I can tell you what my name ISN'T. It ISN'T Glenda. And may I ask what your name isn't? Wait, let me guess. It isn't PeeWee Herman. Well, Not Peewee, it's been nice getting to know you. Now I am going to continue my date and I am wishing you a very nice evening." With a gentle smile and looking straight into his eyes.

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DD, one of the smartest, si... (Below threshold)

December 15, 2013 4:12 AM | Posted, in reply to DD's comment, by Tripp Hanning: | Reply

DD, one of the smartest, simplest answers here.

LOUIE STARTED IT. Whether or not he started with the wrong person is moot. Louie was the original instigator, for not leaving to begin with, and for behaving as if he had ANY authority.

When we go out, if people are not behaving properly, that's the wrong place for us. We leave before we get stuck in the wrong place.
Actions speak louder than words. Often faster, too.

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