March 22, 2007

A Primer on Pedophilia

This is the most important part: most pedophiles aren't sexually attracted to kids.

Like most other terms used in psychiatry and politics, the meaning appears to be self-evident, but it's actually wrong.  Other examples include "insane," "antisocial" (it means criminal), and "inflammable." ("Inflammable means flammable?  What a country!") 

Pedophile had originally been divided into two groups, fixated and regressed.  Interestingly, even these terms don't mean what they look like they mean.  They don't describe what kind of kid the pedophile likes; they describe why he is a pedophile.

Fixated pedophiles are fixed in a certain developmental stage, and are exclusively attracted to kids. 

Regressed pedophiles, using the original definition, prefer adults but, if stressed, will regress to an earlier developmental stage; this regression leads them to prefer children.   The regressed pedophile likes kids because he himself has "become" a kid (more technically: he regresses to a pregenital sexuality, which finds its satisfaction in oral  (e.g. masturbation, fetishism) or anal impulses (e.g. sadomasochism) and its natural compatriot, the child.) 

The terms homosexual and heterosexual apply to the primary object choice, not necessarily the sex of the victim (e.g. "heterosexual molester of boys.")  Fixated pedophiles tend to be (i.e. think of themselves as)  homosexual, and regressed (think of themselves as) heterosexual.

But the easiest way, and most forensically  useful way, is to simply describe pedophiles according to their sexual object preference: Fixated pedophiles are true pedophiles, they are only sexually aroused by kids.  Opportunistic (regressed) pedophiles would rather have a hot 25 year old, but will take the best offer.  Regressed pedophiles don't think they are pedophiles. 

Remember, whether they are homosexual or not isn't the differentiating factor (e.g. male homosexual regressed pedophiles prefer adult men but would settle for a kid.  Heterosexual fixated pedophiles prefer kids.)

An example of the fantasy life of each is illustrative: the fixated pedophile might be married, but will take a feature of the adult and "see" it as child like.  Maybe the slope of the calf, the hair style, etc.  Fetishism is also important, and there is a clear (to the pedophile, not to anyone else) direct link to children (a type of cloth or pattern; sounds such as bells, crowds; language or words, etc.)

The regressed, or opportunistic, pedophile does the opposite: "I know she's only 13, but have you seen her ass?!" 

So now you can see why all of our attempts at catching pedophiles before they offend are doomed to absolute failure: they're everywhere.  I know no one will admit this, but remember how hot you thought Britney Spears was in the original video "Hit Me Baby One More Time?"  Guess what.  You're a pedophile.  You say, "but I'd never act on it."  Well, you say a lot of things.

But that's the crux, of course: desire and action are very different things, and, arguably are controlled by entirely different parts of the brain, or personality factors, or superego departments.  Not a day goes by I don't want to plasma gun 50 people I meet.  But, so far body count = 0.  This is why we can only be judged on our behaviors, not our thoughts (though a person must judge himself on his thoughts.)

You don't know what a person is capable of until they are presented with the temptation, so I'm saying we shouldn't tempt them.  The problem with opportunistic pedophilia is that it is opportunistic, not pedophilia.  The goal isn't the child; it's ejaculation.  And you simply don't know where a person's "line in the sand" for ejaculation is.  At what point do they say, "this is probably not right?"  Not: "this is wrong,"  that's usually easy to describe.  Probably wrong.  16?  14 if they're famous? 12 if you're in Thailand?

The guy on the IM or chat who gets a 14 year old girl to meet him at the pier-- he's a "regressed pedophile."  He would have liked her to have been a 25 year old NFL cheerleader; but, let's face it, a 25 year old NFL cheerleader would sooner swallow her own eye than hook up with this freak, and he knows it.  So he bypasses her ("they're all sluts") and cons a 14 year old.  It's no surprise that  75% of heterosexual pedophiles described their offenses as "compensation." 

Fixated pedophiles are sometimes described as "child centered."  In fact, they see themselves as the peers of the child, and prefer to interact with the child on its level (while regressed pedophiles try to elevate the interaction with the kid to adult level.)  They're not in it "for the sex" but for the emotional connection.  For the regressed, the sex is the whole point.  And here's your forensic problem: a regressed pedophile kidnaps a kid to have sex with.  Once done, well, anything can happen.  If the kid "liked it," (maybe defined as "didn't put up too much of a fight") there's a good chance they'll meet again.  But if the kid didn't like it...  A fixated pedophile kidnaps a kid to-- live with.  That fantasy rarely gets realized (kid likely doesn't want to move in) and violence can therefore occur.  But appreciate the difference: for a regressed pedophile, the violence is part of the offense.  For the fixated, violence is secondary or utilitarian.

I can already hear the screaming objections.  Look, I'm not trying to defend anyone, I'm trying to explain the offenses, the thinking.  In simple terms, your child is a billion times more at risk from "pedophilia" with an adult they know (30% of victims have known their attacker for a full year prior to the offense), who is already married with kids of his own that he has not molested, then they are from the registered pedophile who lives in your city who was hoarding child porn in his mom's basement.  I know it sounds cooler and more self-righteous to rail against the pedophile than to worry about your (weak-minded) social contacts, because you think you know them, and especially since they outnumber you.  By a lot.

You say, "but certainly not everyone is a pedophile, there must be something specifically different about them?" Or, if you work for the Supreme Court: "there must be some mental abnormality which is properly the domain of medicine?"

No.  Not in a way that's useful.  For example, a very recent MRI study of fixated pedophiles vs. controls found pedophiles had decreases in grey matter (smaller brains), especially in certain brain regions (orbitofrontal, ventral striatum, limbic regions), and generally decreased intelligence.  But before you see this as proof that pedophilia finds its origins in brain biology, the physical brain changes didn't predict anything you might expect (number of offenses, psychopathy, etc)-- but it did predict obsessiveness.   In other words, this study found biological evidence of OCD spectrum pathology, but not of pedophilia, per se.  No, pedophilia isn't a disease with distinct physical pathology, and no, it isn't properly the domain of psychiatry.

I may write a "profile" of the pedophilic sex offender, and another post reviewing the developmental and biological studies so far.  Or, I may just go have a drink (or 4.)


Hi, great blog! I especiall... (Below threshold)

March 24, 2007 6:00 PM | Posted by ME: | Reply

Hi, great blog! I especially loved the children of therapists posts, being one myself.

You post a great deal on the limitations of the mental health professions, but I thought I would suggest writing a post on what it is you think the mental health industry actually IS good for. You say pedophilia is not in the domain of psychiatry, but is there anything that in your opinion emphatically IS in the domain of psychiatry?

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This is what I dont underst... (Below threshold)

March 24, 2007 9:59 PM | Posted by AK: | Reply

This is what I dont understand:

Society gets upset about pedophilia--but does little or nothing to keep the fashion industry from marketing slutty clothes to grade school and middle school aged children.


I'm not saying kids should be dressed like nuns. But thirty to forty years ago, when I was in grade school, girl's clothing was gender specific but not sexualized, as it is today.

And this was Los Angeles, in the public school system, not an Amish community.

If we are going to get all upset about the hazards of pedophilia, stop marketing trashy clothes to girls younger than 14.

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AK, I disagree with your ta... (Below threshold)

March 24, 2007 10:55 PM | Posted by C. Burke: | Reply

AK, I disagree with your take on clothing being a risk factor for pedophilia. The problem stems not from how children look, but in the evaluation of right/wrong and impulse control in the pedophile. The argument that a victim of sexual assault or other attack, child or adult, bears some culpability for the assault based on clothing or appearance is tired and nonproductive.

Children's clothing becoming more seductive and adult is a problem only if we somehow tacitly accept that if children look too grown up, too sexy (wait, who finds children sexy again?), someone out there won't be able to help himself. It's a copout that lets us avoid looking at the actual problem of pedophilia and how our society fosters it.

Thsi argument comes up frequently in discussions of rape on feminist blogs, and it can be summed up like this: the only thing that causes a woman to be raped is the presence of a rapist. A woman can go out in tiny skirts and drink herself under the table for years, and be raped at home in her nightgown. Difference? The rapist's presence.

The same applies to children. The deciding factor in whether a child is molested by a pedophile? The presence of a pedopile.

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I suggest two other 'lines'... (Below threshold)

March 25, 2007 8:47 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I suggest two other 'lines' be drawn:

1. Whether the object choice is pre- or post pubertal should make a difference. Prepubertal is pedophilic, post-pubertal (say 16-17y) is simply unethical, illegal and skeevy.

2. Mustachioed vs Nonmustachioed. Though this may a confound for regressed vs fixed, respectively.

PS: I cannot beleive the number of people who ask 'what, then, is the purview of psychiatry?' How about the treatment of subjectively painful mood, thought or behavioral symptoms using empirically-derived methods. Nothing else.

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C. Burke, I agree with you.... (Below threshold)

March 25, 2007 3:50 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

C. Burke, I agree with you. That being said, I also have to question what the hell is wrong with parents who dress their little girls like they are young women. I was purchasing jeans for a five year old girl not too long ago, and I was disgusted at the fact that stores are selling jeans that fit low on the hip for children who still have all their baby teeth. The child is five. What message are they trying to send? It's creepy.

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I would like to see Jessica... (Below threshold)

March 25, 2007 3:58 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I would like to see Jessica's Law passed in all states. It requires a mandatory minimum sentence of 25 years in prison and lifetime electronic monitoring of adults convicted of lewd or lascivious acts against a victim less than twelve years of age. It makes sexual battery or rape of a child less than twelve years of age a capital felony, punishable only by death or life imprisonment with no chance of parole. Of course, I would prefer the take-them-out-back-and-put-a-bullet-in-their-brain approach, but some would consider that too mean.

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one point ive always made t... (Below threshold)

October 26, 2007 9:07 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

one point ive always made to friends in debates, in which I always get heat from, is back in the old days adults would marry younger girls like 14 or 15. My question is in the old days, a prominent wealthy man would pick a young girl, why? in your reasoning on the blog its because he couldn't get a hot 25 year old. but i have to disagree

Well, kind reader of somewhat suspicious intentions, these are both time and setting specific. 400 years ago, I'm sure youth and vitality/birthing hips were the main factors, along with dowry and willingness to tolerate affairs :-) The reason it's different now is that relationships are considered to be considerably more equitable, i.e. the woman gets to have as much say in being with you as you do in choosing her. (Though any guy under 89 will agree that women hold all the cards in dating! JUST KIDDING EVERYONE RELAX.) But kids are considered not able to make that choice as freely, especially if there is a power differential, e.g. you are older.

Look at it this way: what are the reasons why someone would want a 15 year old and not a 25 year old? What does a 15 yo have that a 25 yo doesn't have? I'm going to leave aside the unusual case of "I fell in love with this girl here who happens to be 15" and focus on people who like 15 year olds more than 25 year olds. Why?

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As someone who was molested... (Below threshold)

November 8, 2007 7:00 AM | Posted by CMK: | Reply

As someone who was molested at 15, I have been giving a great deal of thought lately to exactly that question. Legal culpability lies with the adult, but where is the moral culpability?
It feels very intuitively correct that the pre/postpubertal status of the child distinguishes the type of pedophile. In my case the molester was unhappily married with children, and he was very specifically a person who bowed to conventional morality rather than possessing an internal sense of right/wrong, and showed poor impulse control combined with alcohol. He is a very morally rigid and ethical person. In fact he is a psychiatrist. Not my psychiatrist. I read with great interest the blog on how children of pdocs go 'off' in the same way, and why, very insightful.

Incidentally, my parents met and began a sexual relationship when he was 23 and she was 15. They married a week after she graduated from high school, and the marriage lasted 7 years. She was unusually mature and aggressive, and he was unusually immature and passive. I don't doubt that she seduced him. We're not talking about Appalachia, rather Bos-Wash; he is an electrical engineer and she a sociologist.

The difference being that she was interested and I wasn't. The similarity being the reason she didn't rescue me. The extreme disparity in age (a generation) being her objection. It isn't only children and pedophiles who have a poor grip on right/wrong.

The psychiatrist went unpunished beyond the breakup of his marriage, remarried, and went on to a series of mistresses very similar to me but 10 years older, marrying the mistress each time the wife caught on and finding another mistress.

Perhaps Mother's early experience had some causal relationship with mine, and perhaps I accepted the power inequity because of her life-long domineering. Certainly my life was altered in many very negative ways. If he moved on from the 15 yo to the 25 yo, is he regressed or power-hungry? Or is it the same thing? Certainly he is 'not in the domain of psychiatry' not being in pain or desiring change, but I have been in care ever since.

Sorry to dump personal stuff, but the posters raise some very good questions. I would also like to see a post on what the mental health industry is good for.

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Dear CMK,i'm sorry t... (Below threshold)

July 26, 2008 5:24 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Dear CMK,
i'm sorry to hear that you have been molested, but i would like to point out that this could have happened to you at any age.
I live in a country where the AOC is 14, that means that it is ok for an adult to have sex with a >=14y/o.

This is not seen as an abuse "per se" by anyone (beside hate-centric persons) and in most cases it is not. The difference between abuse and having a normal and satisfying affective and sexual relation with someone is not the age, not is the age difference between the two but instead is the will of the two involved persons. As you said you did NOT want to have sex with this person, and that's what made it an abuse exactly as forcing someone to have sex with you makes it an abuse, no matter the age you have.

I am sorry to hear that you have been used like this, it is sad, but some people are cruel and care only for themselves, but if you met a person who did care for you the things would have been completely different first of all because this person would have respected your will.

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This is another erroneous a... (Below threshold)

November 17, 2008 12:44 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

This is another erroneous article that attempts to dissect the motivations of pedophilia while not understanding a fact about it that is blatantly obvious if you interact with a real pedophile, exclusive or not: It's not all about the sex. It also makes the fallacious assumption that non-exclusive pedophiles are somehow less legitimate than their counterparts. In actuality, people, even those bound by a paraphilia, are individuals. They all have individual emphases they place on sexuality versus emotion in relationships, regardless of whether they are "regressed" or "fixated" (foolish terms more accurately represented by exclusive and non-exclusive).

In fact, this article doesn't even primarily talk about pedophilia. It talks about ephebophilia more than anything, the attraction to pubescent minors. Liking Brittney Spears when she was younger does not make you a pedophile, it makes you an ephebophile. Anybody who was truly in the fields of psychological study would know this distinction, as the motivations behind the two are entirely distinct.

Nepiophilia - Attraction to toddlers and infants (generally 0-4)
Pedophilia - Attraction to prepubescent minors (generally ages of 4-10)
Ephebophilia - Attraction to pubescent minors (from puberty until age of consent, 18 generally the standard)

If this basic distinction isn't known to the author, then they clearly haven't researched into the subject as fully as they had hoped. As for most pedophiles not being attracted to kids, that's garbage. The very definition of pedophilia is being sexually attracted to kids. A romantic element is also very possible and very prevalent, once again blatantly obvious if you visit actual pedophile congregational forums such as Pedophilia does not imply that a person has acted on their urges though.

As a non-exclusive pedophile, your analysis of them is completely wrong. When I find a 13 year old girl attractive, I find her attractive as she is. I don't want her to be an NFL cheerleader, although in certain instances I also find them attractive. I find her perfectly sexy, beautiful, and cute as she is. And when I'm attracted to an 8 year old, I don't want them to be a 13 year old. I'm not substituting my true fantasies for whatever I can find; I legitimately find differing types of beauty in each age group and can appreciate them individually.

So, to the author, before you make a "profile" of a pedophile, ephebophile, nepiophile, or whatever you see fit (though let me advise you that no such thing exists with any more veracity than the profile of a homosexual or a heterosexual), I advise you to truly educate yourself on the basic terminology of your field of study and not be swayed yourself (as you so ironically complained about) by the common meanings of words.

I admire your attempt at objectively studying our "illness", but if you truly wish to be more than a charlatan adding to the already immense amount of misinfomation circulating about minor-attracted people then you will need to look at things from a different perspective. Quit being apologetic to biased science and the misguided masses.

As for the study you've linked, I would fault it on the following counts:

1. Science is not immune from the subjective leanings of its conductors and certainly of society at large. Only a century or so ago we had scientists telling us that "negroes" had smaller brain masses (and it should be noted that brain mass does not necessarily correlate to intelligence, as biologists frequently observe in very cognitively endowed animals, with larger brains than humans, who still can't use simple tools). Consider that Rind et al., one of the few studies to produce the relatively neutral result that minor/adult sexuality, if the child consents (or believes they have based on your viewpoint), is not overly harmful (though do not think that I am praising the study for its objectivity as it has similar flaws to most studies on the effects of minor/adult sexuality) was censured by Congress. I do not recall in recent times any other study that was similarly criticized by a government body. Surely that exemplifies the type of climate a scientist, even if they are striving to be objective, has to deal with. Bruce Rind, since his study, has been largely ostracized from the scientifc community.

2. What is the source of the so-called "pedophile" group in comparison to the other group? I imagine that the "pedophile" group was taken from the sex offenders' registry or some other way that would assure that those involved are criminals (not that I am saying it was their intent, it's highly possible that it was merely a matter of convenience) whereas the control group would consist of a random selection of people. It would be noted then that in general criminals possibly would be more likely to have this defect as opposed to non-criminals and not just specifically minor attracted people.

3. The deduction made from the evidence is a cum hoc fallacy regardless of its truth. Just because lesser brain mass (and possibly lower intelligence, though the former does not imply the latter) is correlated with minor attracted people does not mean that one causes the other, meaning that it doesn't prove that being minor attracted causes low intelligence nor that low intelligence causes minor attracted paraphilias. As you go from a city to a small town, you will find more churches. You will also find more crime. Does this mean that more churches cause more crime? Will tearing down some churches in Detroit make the crime rate go down? Of course not. It's a correlation, but not a causation.

4. The size of the sample is fairly low. Only 18 people is not a very good representation of a group which, by your own admission, is extremely large. And 24 people is not a very good representation of a group which is even larger. It also makes no indication as to the relative diversity of the sample (excepting sexual orentiation, which to me doesn't seem as relevant to the results as socioeconomic status, geographic area, and other more sociologically pertinent descriptions).

To conclude, there is no such thing as a "pedophile" as we have come to know them, just as the deviant, Godless, and flamboyant homosexual and the ape-like black man who can't be trusted around white women are myths. They are individuals, their only loose bond being an attraction they share. There are no men hiding in your bushes or waiting with candy in a van. Not all pedophiles are overweight or have odd mustaches. Some of them are losers; some of them are very popular. Some are rich and some poor. Some are young and some are old. Some are ugly; some are handsome. Some of them hate themselves for their attractions and some have come to terms with it. Some think minor/adult sex is okay; some don't. In actuality, you probably already know a minor attracted person. They're probably normal, ethically sound individuals who are safe to leave your kids around. They could be a crazed murderous lunatic, but they'd be that way whether they were attracted to minors or not. In any division of people there are bad people, good people, and more often those in the middle. Minor attracted people are no exception.

You may be asking why you've never heard of these good pedophiles or even the in the middle ones. They don't want you to. Who are "they"? The media that entertains you with stories of pedophiles and Satanic child rapists and other such fantasies is them. NBC, who gets astounding ratings with their To Catch A Predator show is them. The psychiatric industry who is tasked with fixing a problem that was largely invented (the age of consent was 10 as late as the 1800s, and even before the 1980s we rarely hear a peep about pedophiles) and makes billions of dollars off of it is them. They don't care about your children; they just want to sell you their safety for a hefty price. They want to be "tough on pedos" so they can get your vote and maintain their lavish offices.

I think it's time we stop letting them prey on our emotions that we have for our children. Instead we need to come to realize that love is boundless and can exist in any form, as can lust and rape and opportunistic sex but that does not mean that in any love, whether it be heterosexual, homosexual, pedophile, zoophile, necrophile, polygamist, incestual, or anywhere in between only one type will exist. Love is a cruel beast who will target anyone and infatuate them with anyone and that as we are all common slaves of this phenomenon we should let no human have their infatuations tested, vilified, quantified, ridiculed, or examined by another who has no truly experienced the love they wish to judge. Live and let live and leave matters of the human heart to the hearts that are afflicted. No amount of "science", rhetoric, or insultation shall convince myself or others of the impurity of their feelings, and this is why love shall conquer over hatred. You can cling to hatred as long as it's an easy road to follow instead of accompanying love in the bumpiest and most dangerous of paths it will tread, it's your choice, but you will always be on the losing side.

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So many anonymous posters. ... (Below threshold)

November 17, 2008 8:52 PM | Posted by Silver Wolfe: | Reply

So many anonymous posters. Thanks for an interesting, albeit somewhat inaccurate, article.

A few things:

1. If they are not attracted to prepubescent children, they are not pedophiles. Being attracted to a developing or developed individual gives no indication they are attracted to anything else.

2. Having a sexual encounter with, or sexually 'deviant' thoughts about, a minor of any age does not make a pedophile. Most people have homoerotic thoughts, at the very least, at some point in time of their lives; some have them frequently. Many never consider acting these thoughts out and most never carry through. Are all of them homosexual? You would be astounded at how many people I've spoken with who are 'into' rape fantasies. Does this make them rapists/victims of rape in the past or future? A homosexual is a homosexual, and a rapist is a rapist. Only a pedophile is a pedophile.

3. Without even reading the text of the 'study' you presented regarding brain size, I can easily surmise convicted sex offenders were used for the fixated group. Heh, I gotta tell ya, most convicted ANYthing aren't terribly well endowed with mental function across a spectrum of categories, although sometimes they excel in a particular area. I'm not saying there aren't some wicked smart criminals out there, they happen. I merely suggest that using convicts as a base to explore mental capacities of those saddled with a particular sexual orientation is a bit like using a small group of lifetime secluded nuns to describe the sexual practices of Women. Silly, no?

4. Visit for a new perspective. Anyone wishing to tackle mental health and sexuality of pedophiles should be taking a gander at this site.

5. Go easy on the sauce, it won't really help.

Peace, Love and ROUND 2!!!

^Silver Wolfe~~

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Being a convicted child mol... (Below threshold)

November 17, 2008 11:13 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Being a convicted child moleste, "Silver Wolfe" might not be the best source of information about pedophilia.

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<a href=""... (Below threshold)

November 17, 2008 11:18 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply is owned by Michael Melsheimer, another convicted child molester.

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Rawr - that's why most dece... (Below threshold)

November 18, 2008 4:22 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Rawr - that's why most decent people ever hate Anonymous. Everything Anonymous does has ever been ad hominems. I don't agree that we should consider "wanted 25 and settled for 15" a P in any sense except both belong in the same illegality realm in our books, but otherwise nice article.

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The original article appear... (Below threshold)

November 18, 2008 10:57 PM | Posted by Baldur: | Reply

The original article appears to be an honest attempt at the subject, but I'm afraid the author doesn't quite understand the material - and even then, the material itself is greatly flawed.

Pedophilia is a sexual orientation, and all types of people can be pedophiles - highly ethical or unethical, flexible or rigid, selfless or selfish, intelligent or stupid. Studies done on the stupid ones who are most likely to get caught say nothing about any class except stupid people. This is especially true since numerous studies have found that those most likely to break the law are not actually pedophiles at all - that is, they are not primarily attracted to children.

CMK made some good points: Their abuse happened because of other ethical and/or intellectual failings on the parts of others, without regard to their sexual orientation. First, please note that attraction to a 15yo is not pedophilia. That is normal. But the problems did not arise from the ages of the participants, but from uncaring and/or domineering behavior, and from cluelessness. Attacks on pedophilia do nothing to prevent such problems, and may exacerbate them by diverting attention from problem areas.

As for a psychiatrist being involved in such abuse - well, I am not surprised. It is an open secret that most psychologists and psychiatrists are troubled individuals, often drawn to the field by a desire to understand themselves. Beyond this, psychologists are - on average - not the cream of the crop, and even psychiatrists are generally drawn from the less-gifted M.D.s. Take their conclusions with a grain of salt - the medical understanding of the brain today is only slightly beyond where the medical understanding of the rest of the body was 250 years ago, when every ailment seemed to require blood-letting.

For persons not suffering from severe mental disorders, I would suggest talking to friends rather than psychotherapists. You will probably get better results, and even if you offer to pay for their dinner in order to get them to come, it will be much cheaper. Numerous studies have proven that talk therapy is ineffective, and most of the medical treatments have severe side-effects and should not be used unless absolutely necessary. Before therapy was so prevalent, there was a much more effective method of dealing with problems, which can be summed up in three words: "Get over it." It works in most cases.

Oh, yeah = moderate physical activity is also conducive to mental health.

I mention all this, because a lot of what you see psychologists doing is not about healing anyone, but primarily about paying the bills. They need you to buy their product so they can buy the products they want. If that means peddling some bullshit that makes virtually everyone a "victim" in need of their product, that is what they will do.

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>>>>Being a convicted child... (Below threshold)

November 19, 2008 2:34 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by vensat: | Reply

>>>>Being a convicted child moleste, "Silver Wolfe" might not be the best source of information about pedophilia.

Thank you very much for showing the point that studies done on convicted offenders don't shed light on the universe of paedophiles. Nobody did it with the beautiful succintness and parsimony you did.

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"Pedophilia is a sexual ori... (Below threshold)

November 19, 2008 3:44 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"Pedophilia is a sexual orientation"

Pedophilia is *not* a sexual orientation.

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"Nobody did it with the bea... (Below threshold)

November 19, 2008 3:46 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"Nobody did it with the beautiful succintness and parsimony you did."

So you agree or disagree with SW's assertion that the 5 year old little girl he raped was "asking for it"?

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Sounds like Silver Wolfe is... (Below threshold)

November 20, 2008 12:18 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Sounds like Silver Wolfe is queer for "Rez". LOL

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<a href="http://wikisposure... (Below threshold)

November 20, 2008 12:30 AM | Posted by jimjones: | Reply explains that the little girl he raped was really asking for it.

"I've been adjudicated against for my involvement with a young girl who I feel in love with many years ago. She was about 5 years of age and our relationship flowered over time. It was gentle and very much in her control. Some of you know much of the details about this. We were together nearly 2 years."

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obviously anyone who is obs... (Below threshold)

November 20, 2008 1:49 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

obviously anyone who is obsessed with sexualizing kids has an issue or two,but i dont think psychology or psychiatry is doing very well with this issue. for starters,docs and police profilers want to fit all offenders into neat little boxes. there may be certain tendencies that come up frequently,but that doesnt mean they all think the same or do things for the same reasons. for example: fixated and regressed leaves out alot. what about the guy who likes both women and young females? "if shes cute and has a hole,thats all i need." i knew someone like that. the only reason why he had sex with more women than girls is because women who were ready for sex were easier to come by than "willing" minors. he really had no preference by age,as long as she was cute and easy. is he still a pedophile? does just being willing to have sex with a minor for any reason make him a true pedophile? i dont think you can treat pedophilia or any other mental condition as long as we get stuck in a rut and refuse to examine all the evidence and possibilities. calling a dog a "cat" will not make it meow,even if you convince the onlookers that it is a weird looking cat.

and regarding the childrens fashion issue...

its always easiest to pass the buck,but parents know offenders are out there. since parents buy the clothes,its their fault if the kid looks too "sexy." i dont care if its "in" or "cute" or "harmless," learn to tell your kids NO. if the parents will stop buying these provocative clothes,the producers will stop making them. allow your kid to be a kid,and stop dressing them like little adults. when i see a 10yr old wearing high heels,leather,fishnet,and makeup,i want to bitch-slap the mother.
dont be so good at providing temptation,then act indignant when some perv eyes your daughter. its called hypocracy,and the world is rife with it,especially in the West...

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Ah, the sort of garnished d... (Below threshold)

November 20, 2008 8:42 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Ah, the sort of garnished divisiveness I'd expect to see surrounding this topic.

Where's the registry in my state for murderers? Why don't I "have a right to know" who might KILL our children?

Why is child sexual abuse the only crime that can't be caught on camera? Why is it perfectly okay to possess a picture or video of that same child being decapitated or starved to death?

Most importantly, why is no one asking these questions?

I'm just saying, there's a lot of worse stuff out there which we pay almost no attention to, and it makes no sense to me how we as a society can be so much more fixated on child abuse than anything else. What's worse is that our law has sympathized with the very same irrational fear-mongering that drives our society. I'm sorry but people desperately need to get their values in order.

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1. I agree completely with ... (Below threshold)

November 22, 2008 2:48 AM | Posted by lgsinmyheart: | Reply

1. I agree completely with Anonymous on Nov 20 at 8.42

Our Western society is very bad at setting itself priorities.

2. I might like or not like whatever anyone else is wearing.

But it's just not my business!!

That applies to any person, whether 80, 40, 18 or 8; of any gender and of any race.

I have a right not to like some attire. But I have no right to comment on it in an aggressive or demeaning way, nor to speak about it behind the wearer's back, nor to pretend it to be "forbidden" or prevented to sell or to wear.

So, you don't like clothes which are "too sexy"? Fine. It's still not your business to "slap the parents".

3. Since I don't want to take up too much space here, I replied at Annabel. Message 455914. And please use the https, folks!

4. I quite liked this blog. I will keep coming back here. And that's a lot to say, given I am not friendly at all with the mental health profession.

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Nov 17th 11:13/18: Nobody c... (Below threshold)

November 23, 2008 12:22 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Tyciol: | Reply

Nov 17th 11:13/18: Nobody commenting here is the 'best' source of information. All people, convicts included, can say what they like. People can read objectively. Hopefully nobody's taking anything as heresay, and research and think critically themselves.

Nov 18th 4:22: I hope the irony does not escape you. Try to use less all-encompassing descriptions. Don't rail on Anonymous, anonymity is just fine.

Baldur: It depends on what you mean by 'sexual orientation'. More strict use of the term can refer solely to orientation on the physical characteristic of one's sex. It isn't even always extended to gender (for transgender considerations) much less things like height, age or ethnicity. So it really depends on how broadly you want to use it. I have moments where my eyes linger longer on japanese women, and other moments where they're drawn to africans. For some people, these biased moments last much longer, maybe even a lifetime. I wouldn't necessarily call any of these moods a 'sexual orientation', as they are much less concretely defined as male/female sex is.

While that isn't a totally black and white issue (such as with 3-chromozone abnormalities and intersexed people) I think you'll probably agree that it is far more discretely observable in comparison to analog concepts like age and ethnicity. There are a lot more steps in between 'young' and 'old' or 'white' and 'black' than there are between 'male' and 'female'. Considering how many factors of eroticism aren't linked to the physical act of sex at all, deeming it a 'sexual' orientation is really not something I think is correct, especially since reproductive organs rarely play an overt part at all in it, especially with initial infatuations.

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"Tyciol" is Jordan Robert H... (Below threshold)

November 23, 2008 5:53 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"Tyciol" is Jordan Robert Hill, another self-admitted pedophile with an admitted desire to rape little girls.

"I do think I'd be fine with 8-13 though, honestly."
-Jordan Robert Hill

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"That applies to any person... (Below threshold)

November 23, 2008 5:56 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"That applies to any person, whether 80, 40, 18 or 8; of any gender and of any race."

Maybe for you, baby raper. Fortunately, the vast majority of right thinking society doesn't share your particular pathology.

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Questions worth repeating<b... (Below threshold)

February 8, 2009 6:21 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Questions worth repeating
"Where's the registry in my state for murderers?"
"Why is child sexual abuse the only crime that can't be caught on camera?"

Hypocrisy would be one answer. I'll bet virtually all men find recently pubescent girls sexually attractive. Good luck getting them to admit it though.

Possessing pictures of anything should not be a crime. Everyone has done worse things than masturbating to a picture.

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5:53. Anonymity, how approp... (Below threshold)

March 11, 2009 4:10 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Tyciol: | Reply

5:53. Anonymity, how appropriate for you. People don't want to put up a name when sinking to ad hominem to ignore an argument. "See this person, see what we say about them, therefore ignore what they say". Genius. Believe the mob, don't search for truth, don't listen to what people say, only the summaries of the persecutors.

5:56. A similar problem (and obviously the same poster). Do not call someone pathological or a rapist simply because you disagree with them. Looking past that, I share disagreement with Lgs statement, it IS our business to protect other humans. Even what other people wear can be made business if there is logical reason to do so.

For example, we mandate clothing for keeping a semblence of thinking and right order as well as hygiene and warmth. Beyond that though, I think we can be overcontrolling, that's probably what he's trying to get at. People should be regulated to the same standards, and not selectively moreso unless there is good reason. In the case of children, I think it makes more sense for them to wear more clothing, because being kept warm is good for health, and they don't know as much about disease or avoiding accidents so clothing can help protect against these.

Those are better reasons than sensibility or not trying to arouse others' eyes, because that will happen regardless depending on people's varying and adapting tastes.

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Found this site because I w... (Below threshold)

May 13, 2009 11:08 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Found this site because I was trying to research pedophilia. I know someone who has worked alongside a person who was just arrested for sexual assault of a minor. I just feel really, really sad. It has been really hard to hear this (despite being totally detached; I've never met either the victim or the accused) and I'm full of incredibly conflicting varieties of sadness that are extremely hard to reconcile. I feel sorrow for the victim - I cannot even imagine the trauma he went through, yet at the same time I feel sorrow for the accused (apparently he was a troubled man with a seriously problematic past). All I can say is the entire situation is so sad...and I need hope: please someone, tell me that this is something that can be stopped.

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Feel sorry for the victim n... (Below threshold)

May 15, 2009 4:28 PM | Posted, in reply to ME's comment, by Maureen: | Reply

Feel sorry for the victim not the accused. We always want to defend the accused - no one that is normal commits crme - any crime. So enough of excuses for them. Society is general fails mentally ill and people with all types of "abnormal" mindsets - but we can't change the world. But the victims of pedophiles are children, babies whose innocense is forever taken away - they may now never be able to live a normal life because of the trauma that they went through as a child. I know my daughter was a victim. Children trust adults around them and the pedophile breaches that trust so that the child may never be able to "trust" again. Pedophiles are manipulative and persuasive until they can finally pounce on that child for their own sick gratification. They groom their victims very carefully and select the more vulnerable type child. And I hate to tell you this - if they molested once and got caught - there are probably many other unreported victims of this accused. Those are the hard facts. Try living with the horror of watching your child's life destroyed by one of these pedophiles. All the therapy in the world has still not let the flashbacks leave nor allow her to trust males in her life. Oh she is a grown woman now, but a terriried child inside.

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Interesting article. I have... (Below threshold)

May 27, 2009 2:16 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Interesting article. I have to take exception to the language in the article and the comments that follow.

As a fixated pedophile who has NEVER molested a child, I object to the synonymization of these two things in our society today. So for me also:


My pedophilia is a result of sexual abuse from a number of adults, both male and female, pretty much from birth (my earliest memory is of being molested). I believe that the reason I have never sexually offended results from my refusal to be ashamed of my pedophilia. I accept it, and can therefore control it.

It's all a matter of personal choice. I simply choose not to have sex with children. Also, while not being attracted to adults, I choose to be in a commited relationship with another man (who knows my true orientation). It keeps me accountable and keeps me out of relationships with women, where I might end up responsible for a child.

To conclude, Pedophilia is an orientation. Child molesting is a crime. The two are VERY different things.

p.s. My IQ is 160, so unless I am a serious statistical outlier, the research suggesting that fixated pedophiles have lower intelligence was either based on inaccurate data or the results were filtered through the mores of whomever performed this 'research'. I noticed that no journal article was quoted. Scientifically, if something hasn't been published in a peer reviewed journal, it is simply not true.

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The pedophile with the long... (Below threshold)

August 5, 2009 5:44 PM | Posted by kayleighkins: | Reply

The pedophile with the long drawn out speech about why we should understand him is probably one of the most terrifying individuals I've never met.

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I don't know if this has be... (Below threshold)

September 28, 2011 12:07 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I don't know if this has been pointed out, but his name is Leif Ericson (without the k).

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re: What other people are w... (Below threshold)

October 28, 2011 7:51 PM | Posted, in reply to lgsinmyheart's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

re: What other people are wearing is none of my business.

Yeah it is, unless they wear it in private. When people wear something in public, that is my business.

I have just as much a right not to be inflicted with unwanted sexualized cues as I have a right not to be annoyed with laser lights aiming at my eyes when I cross the street.

Women can be expected to put some f*ing clothes on. And dress your kids appropriately!

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lol Kayleigh, reading guy's... (Below threshold)

April 15, 2012 8:51 PM | Posted, in reply to kayleighkins's comment, by Tyciol: | Reply

lol Kayleigh, reading guy's reply to blog = meeting him

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Objectification is a selfis... (Below threshold)

April 30, 2012 7:13 AM | Posted by RantsandStuff: | Reply

Objectification is a selfish act. Loving and wanting isn’t the same thing. Love has nothing to do with the physical. Really loving someone means putting that person’s needs before your own instead of using that person, including their image or your idea of what they are, for gratification (sexual or otherwise). Love is completely selfless. And while sex can create mutual pleasure it is never completely selfless. Sex is physical. Love is emotional.

Why consider a sexual act with someone who has no power of hind-site and genuinely has little or no concept of how it will affect their future social interactions, with people in the future and/or their perception of self? Because they have no basis for opinion, they are far less likely to react negatively… to reject… to think it through… to question someone who has experience, etc. A child is more likely to ignorantly comply because they trust.

When two adults opt to love one another they enter into a voluntary vulnerability based on an understanding that they will be selfless with one another. When an adult attempts this with a child – it is not equal because the vulnerability for the child is not voluntary. A child is vulnerable because it has no other way to be.

They will always know (consciously or unconsciously) that, during a time of vulnerability and ignorance, they were utilized as an object. Even if the outcome was nonviolent and seemingly pleasant or passive, once this individual becomes self-aware and independent, they will know that a person used them during a time when they were not.

Even if the child seems “curious” - indulging that curiosity is still selfish because, again – see above. Love is selfless. Sexual acts are not. Children are inherently, not voluntarily vulnerable… etc, etc.

Those who suffer with this avoid it, toss in miscellaneous arguments for it when the better option would be to address it head on - so that they can look in the mirror and face who they are without knowing they have a shameful secret.

I don’t believe that an involuntary reaction to stimuli is something to be ashamed of but it’s not something to be confused with love either. Saying it’s love is simply excusing it so that self-loathing doesn’t take hold – that’s not the healthy alternative either.

And I don’t believe that people should take up torches and pitch forks and chase pedophiles through the streets. It would be a good thing if we lived in a world where people who struggle with social norms could speak out about it instead of living in fear. But, I personally could never condone the idea that children are emotionally developed enough to encourage their participation in sexual acts.

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I dated a homosexual pedoph... (Below threshold)

June 4, 2012 4:47 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I dated a homosexual pedophile. He was 30 years old, I was 34 at the time. He had a 22 year old straight kid moving in with him a couple months after I left him. I knew the guy for years, we dated for about seven months. I though he was a genuine sweet guy. When I started falling in love with him I let him no. The talks, there were three... They were all wrong. I kept having the "junkie talk" with him. There are certain things only addicts say. I couldn't figure out what was going on... They I went on the hook-up sites. He was there. I posted a fake profile of a 20+ year old guy (kid) in a jock strap and he was on it in about 10 minutes. The exchange was sick. Completely predations. Not at all the person he was pretending to be.

I've known other guys like this. They claim to be homosexuals but all they do is hunt and stalk young guys. They use them like crack. There is no one in their lives more important than their next trick and that includes their last trick. But pair bonding... Forget it. They resent it as "needy" they're simply clueless. They're furtive. Secretive. They want people to trust them and accept them but they manipulate everyone around their addiction. AND THEY NEVER GET IT. They can't see what they do to the people around them. Even though they hide their behavior it's everyone else's problem.

They seem like sociopaths. Not all the way. The guy I dated had an avoidant personality disorder as well. These guys DO have empathy but it's shallow and situational. It's like they have empathy when it's safe and doesn't can't lead to bonding. Or they show empathy when they're targeting a victim. I don't know how much is a show and how much their addiction in part, is the "feeling" it allows them to experience. I'm not sure what pieces belong in which diagnostic bucket. I'm trying to sort these monsters out and put them away. I still need help almost a year after this last guy. He did a real number on me. Normally these guys advertise. This one was really good at hiding his B.S.

What are these people? Are they sexual psychopaths? If psychopathy is a spectrum disorder are these guys on the spectrum? All I can say for sure is they're deeply manipulative, furtive, HAVE empathy but NO ability or desire for pair bonding (although like a sociopath they see it and manipulate this in others while resenting it.)

BTW, there's TOTALLY something to the whole gay = pedophile thing. So many of those guys in the gay bars identifying as homosexuals are NOT. They're pedophiles ephebophiles, etc. They start showing up around age 30 because everyone else moves on and developes. They stay stuck their whole life. They start dabbling with forms of prostitution and eventually, by 50 or 60 that's the main thing they use to lure prey.

Could someone help me with this? I'm seeing a shrink but I need more input and perspectives since this entire topic runs right off the map. I can't find solid data on it.

Thank you.

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I posted a fake profile ... (Below threshold)

June 5, 2012 2:06 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by MikWC: | Reply

I posted a fake profile of a 20+ year old guy (kid) in a jock strap and he was on it in about 10 minutes. The exchange was sick. Completely predations. Not at all the person he was pretending to be.

Pedophiles don't hit on 20+. For crying out loud.

Also, you were being deceptive too.

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Yes - pedophiles DO attack ... (Below threshold)

June 16, 2012 4:38 AM | Posted by Anonymous_4_a_reason: | Reply

Yes - pedophiles DO attack 20 somethings.

You know, until I was sexually assaulted earlier this week, and was able to fight him off from turning into a rape - I'd never have believed some of this myself.

After the police looked at my apartment, took photos where the handyman had attacked me, they fixated on something that I'd never had imagined - my doll collection, and how I was dressed, and curly hair.

They came to the conclusion that it was a possible "pedophile attack". I'm over 30, and was attacked over a stupid toy collection!? :(

Evidently there are triggers that can set certain predators off. I wasn't dressed sexy in the least - I was as Plain Jane as possible - power play is the name of the game, NOT how you're dressed.

Living in a good neighborhood is just a facade, to drop your guard.

Still just sickened by this all. Wondering about police level mace that you spray like a fire extinguisher, and/or a shotgun for home protection. When you're home's compromised, you really think hard on this.

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I was married to a pedophil... (Below threshold)

November 26, 2012 11:21 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I was married to a pedophile for 5+ years. It was a cover, as was his previous marriage. I was completely fooled by his false persona of nice upstanding normal heterosexual Christian person he faked to the world. I learned that he had cross dressed in the past, that he did tons of porn, including (maybe exclusively?) child porn and gay porn. Before I learned the truth, things were not right, and I thought maybe he was gay, he seems to be in many ways. I found out some things, but know that there is probably more I don't know about. He is a pathological liar, and emotionally, bordering on physically, abusive, to me and to my son, and to others in whatever way works. He just uses people, in whatever way works. Being 'nice' or being 'abusive' are just tactics he uses to get something he wants. Pedophilia, abuse, pathological lying, and homosexuality: these traits seem to go together in the disordered. It is evil that harms people.

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I've been researching this ... (Below threshold)

November 26, 2012 2:34 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I've been researching this topic for a while now... The idea that the dozen or so "gay" men that I've known are actually on the pedophilia spectrum and that pedophilia is a spectrum disorder. Some things I've found is that attachment (bonding) disorders are common among pedophiles. Sociopathic traits (low empathy or situations (especially around love and bonding) where empathy is non existant, manipulations, lying, using people, especially to avoid closeness or to attain a sexual target, sex addiction controling behavior, abuse and neglect and the use of other people as social cover. Narcissistic traits centered around remaining young, attaining sexual targets etc. These are all common place. Sex is something that is DONE to a person or something they have DONE to them.

They seem to lament and at the same time resent the idea of a loving (pair bonded) relationship. They don't understand it and dismiss or resent it in others. Love is the thing that takes their "friends" away. Love is something they can never understand or poses. It's a secret club everyone belongs to except them.

No, the idea that a pedophile is someone that only goes after children is a legal and political construct to protect the innocent. Sexuality is a much more complicated thing that defies clear taxonomy. Hell, there may even be pedophiles that can love and pair bond, I've just never seen one. I'm thankful that now, in my mid thirties I'm able to spot some of them and teach younger people how to avoid them as well. These are predators. They're not capable of thinking like everyone else. Their hardware runs an abusive program. They like what they are, they don't want change or redemption. It's part of the condition. Leave them alone.

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If you were sexually attrac... (Below threshold)

July 14, 2013 4:02 PM | Posted by Peter: | Reply

If you were sexually attracted to Brittany Spears in "Hit Me Baby One More Time," that does NOT make you a pedophile.
Pedophillia: Attraction to children 11 or younger (prepubescent children)
Hebephilia: Attraction to children 12-14 (during puberty)
Ephebophilia: Attracted to teenagers 15-19 (adolescent teens)
You sounded very condescending during this article and I don't think you had reason to.
You don't seem to know your stuff as much as you're putting off to.

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Whether or not your profile... (Below threshold)

July 15, 2013 4:55 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Dovahkiin: | Reply

Whether or not your profile of a pedophile is accurate, I think we'll always be at odds.

First of all, children cannot consent to sex. CAN NOT. No child under the age of 12 or so really gets what sex is, wants sex or even spends a lot of time thinking about sex. I think this is reason enough to find fault with the notion that this is "just another form of love." The difference between a pedophile and an any other sexual orientation is that you are exploiting your position to get sex from someone who is defenseless. They cannot really say no. The same is true of horses and cows, of course, which is why Zoophilia is wrong. I don't get to use another human being in ways that they lack the capacity to really object to.

As to whether it's normal, I would say it's pathological because of the above. Normal nonpathological human behaviors do not exploit people. they don't use power to get what they want. Any person who would do otherwise is psychopathic. You talk about how you feel about sex, but I've never seen the reverse, a person seeking out sex with people who have more power. That's the thing -- if this was about anything mutual, the feelings and thoughts of the child would matter, the needs of the child would matter. the child would not be an object, he'd be a person.

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I don't agree with much of ... (Below threshold)

March 13, 2014 8:52 AM | Posted by Marcus Williams II: | Reply

I don't agree with much of this. Pedophiles cannot be classified into two narrowly defined groups. The author is also making many assumptions about the motivations of pedophiles.

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Re the clothing issue which... (Below threshold)

December 10, 2014 10:13 AM | Posted by ajay: | Reply

Re the clothing issue which is frequently mentioned and is with equal frequency lambasted. It is not a matter of blaming the child: It is a matter of common sense. To illustrate: I should not have to lock my house when I go out. It is my business if I do. It is my business if I do not.
Likewise children should not have to be dressed in a manner so as to not attract pedophilic attention.
The reality is however if we do not take these precautions, however unreasonable they are, we could well increase the chances of being victims of crime. The responsibility for the crime lies totally with the the purpretrator. My carelessness in not securing my home in no way justifies the opportunist burgler. Just as the donning of attractive clothes in no way justifies the actions of a pedophile. I still would rather not tempt fate. Surely it is worth taking unreasonable precautions if it makes our children safer.

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