May 3, 2008

Oh, Please, What Do Europeans Know About Psychiatry?

I mean, like, don't they have seven month vacations over there?  And state sponsored affairs?

The prevalence of bipolar disorder in kids is considerably higher in the U.S. than in Europe.

Why?  Either American kids are more whacked then Europeans-- and you can blame genetics or environment for this; or, the process of diagnosis is whacked, either here or abroad.  Go on, pick: Tatooine or Hoth.

One way to answer this is to use American style diagnostic tools, such as the NIMH's Child Behavior Checklist (CBCL), on Europeans.  The answers on the CBCL can be grouped into different profiles, relating to different diagnoses.  For example, elevated scores in certain areas gives a CBCL-pediatric bipolar profile.

Using this approach, we were in fact able to show that the prevalence rate of children meeting this profile in Germany was comparable to pediatric bipolar rates in other countries using different diagnostic approaches.

In other words,

The prevalence of CBCL-pediatric bipolar disorder subjects in the general German population compares to rates of pediatric bipolar disorder in the US...

...However, no patient [with the CBCL bipolar profile] received a diagnosis of bipolar disorder.  Instead, 3 of 4 children with this profile (whose conditions would presumbaly have been diagnosed as bipolar disorder by some colleagues in the U.S.) received diagnoses of ADHD, oppositional defiant disorder, and conduct disorder.

So there you have it: the diagnosis is whacked.

Ah, you say, come on, what's the difference what you call it?---

Regardless of whether these subjects are affected by 'real' pediatric bipolar disorder or 'severe, pervasive ADHD' [etc]... they constitute a group of seriously disturbed children and adolescents.

Yes, but even though the world agrees the symptoms are the same, the consequences of each label is very different, right?  The epidemiology, the prognosis-- the meds?

But the real difference is the societal implications.  Getting a diagnosis changes the way you relate to the world, and the world relates to you.   The label changes your identity and how you think.

Don't agree?  Try killing someone and using "pervasive ADHD" as a defense.  Get it?

We pretend that psychiatry is an emerging science, and hide behind a feigned ignorance ("we don't know everything, but we're making progress!")   And so no one has to take responsibility, or even admit, that psychiatry is changing the evolution of humanity, right in front of our eyes, with nothing more than words.


Try counting the prescripti... (Below threshold)

May 5, 2008 4:20 PM | Posted by Dr Shock: | Reply

Try counting the prescriptions of ritalin and SSRI's to children in the US, compare that with the use of these drugs in children in Europe and you might find an explanation. At least when you do it quickly, we have the habit of following the US, sometimes good, sometimes bad.
Regards Dr Shock

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"with nothing more than wor... (Below threshold)

May 6, 2008 10:22 AM | Posted by mark p.s.: | Reply

"with nothing more than words"

I wrote psychiatry is a religion.

I had a website where I defined psychiatry as a religion. With the words of the religion ( with mind altering addictive meds/drugs, and hospital-prison to convince detractors they are thinking incorrectly), you change the peoples thinking.

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ppl usually say "I AM bipol... (Below threshold)

May 7, 2008 3:28 AM | Posted by trei: | Reply

ppl usually say "I AM bipolar", but "I HAVE ADHD".
huge dif

not to mention that the kids probably have neither; they're just uneducated, ignored, mistreated, disrespected by their narcissistic parents.

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In the words of the Buddhis... (Below threshold)

May 7, 2008 10:19 AM | Posted by Diane Abus: | Reply

In the words of the Buddhist wisdom tradition(better words,proven by multitudes,imperfect/perfect,borne out in the everyday,encouraging responsibility for experience,action);the first noble truth-life is suffering.Better words.corruption is in trying to alter "the other" with mind-benumbing drugs and as was perfectly said by Mark PS and bears repeating with hospital-prisons.

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My good friend Dr Abram Hof... (Below threshold)

May 7, 2008 10:30 AM | Posted by Diane Abus: | Reply

My good friend Dr Abram Hoffer has made that comment also about psychiatry being a also can be religion and there's the very good and old controversy whether man has some attributes of mind which influence the brain which are simply not there in the animal kingdoms as wonderbar as they are...(the God factor).another great argument that

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Don't really agree that the... (Below threshold)

May 7, 2008 3:35 PM | Posted by Seaneen Molloy: | Reply

Don't really agree that the label changes your identity. It depends on how invested you are.

It also pisses me off that psychiatric illnesses are "labels" but physical illnesses are "illnesses". Kind of trivialising.

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Europeans always needed a l... (Below threshold)

May 8, 2008 1:52 AM | Posted by Ronnie: | Reply

Europeans always needed a little longer to catch up with American fads. It takes a while to rub off every vestment of common sense, and for many years Ritalin and its relatives was daring enough...

But now most parents here are fairly used to the idea of giving their kids such pills, and I see psychiatrists seriously discussing psychiatric medication for 3-6 year olds...

Time to pick up some pharma stocks.

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Seaneen Molloy "Don't reall... (Below threshold)

May 9, 2008 11:03 AM | Posted by mark p.s.: | Reply

Seaneen Molloy "Don't really agree that the label changes your identity."

You were probably thinking just minor psych labels like ADHD, the "last psych" was talking all labels.

I got two example for you, first one personally experienced.

First one, I was labeled paranoid schizophrenic, with this label I was jailed-hospitalized for the crime of being the label. Spend any time in jail Seaneen? I think it changes you a bit.

Second one, once labeled mentally ill, they are saying you are defective, your being, your mind or personality. Can you get a worse insult than that? For the ADHD child , your parents love you, but need you on meds/drugs because they don't like whats inside you.
That doesn't change your identity no.

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Well, I'm "labelled" manic ... (Below threshold)

June 4, 2008 2:14 PM | Posted by Seaneen Molloy: | Reply

Well, I'm "labelled" manic depressive, but I guess that's not as stigmatising as paranoid schizophrenic. And yeah, because of my "label", I'm on medication.

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Some Dr's are undereducate... (Below threshold)

January 14, 2009 2:05 PM | Posted by Irmgard Gordos: | Reply

Some Dr's are undereducated - or they have been in the job to long to see the difference between schizo and an biligual person - they their life style is the Right life style - They can't cope with reality - They can't see past their nose - I had the schivers one morning and the facility took me to the hospital - as soon as i got there the put me on a salt solotion, I was on it for three days. I had no temperature, no chills anymore, everything was o.k.- I got dressed, called the nurse to take the contraption away that I was going home. Now this Dr. comes in to ask me some questions...I did'nt know him fromAdam...I saw my Dr. later on and he gives me this Release from the hospital...I said: This person is schizophrenic, dilusioned, paranoid, a couple more undignified words. I am labeled...our history is available on the computer, any one can read it. How do we complain about it? and to whom? Irmgard

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