August 19, 2010

Life's Possibilities As Seen By Men And Women

Glass-of-water.jpg
time to change your perspective to include getting more glasses





Life's Possibilities As Seen By Men And Women
future possibilities.png

the problem isn't that one is right and the other is wrong; the problem is that they are different





Comments

idgi sorry... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 12:24 AM | Posted by hmm: | Reply

idgi sorry

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It's accurate. What do you ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 12:31 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

It's accurate. What do you have, as a man, except your education? You can't rely on the prospect of marriage. You're only getting married to someone who finds you desirable (lucrative), or someone who loves you, but is fat, or someone who someone who doesn't love you at all but just thinks that marriage is security. Either way, you both lose.

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Okay, here goes: the amount... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 12:48 AM | Posted by huge narcissist: | Reply

Okay, here goes: the amount of freedom you think you have is symbolized by the width of the pipe. Men tend to feel most free before marriage, women feel most free after.

Not sure if I agree, not sure if that's what you're saying.

Am I warm? Can we have a hint, maybe some chicken entrails?

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LastPsych, have you seen th... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 12:51 AM | Posted by BS: | Reply

LastPsych, have you seen this article? Misandry the reason behind America's Decline: http://janthemarketingman.com/uncategorized/why-does-it-seem-that-american-society-is-in-decline/

I would really love to hear your comments about this. Your recent posts have been getting closer to the topic of misandry and this post about marriage expectations is right on point.

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Props to anon #2 , he manag... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 1:31 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Props to anon #2 , he managed to describe his superficiality as being not his fault (that he wants to be rich to bag a hot woman as opposed to a fat woman who is settling for what she can get, thus the concern for education/wealth/status). Somehow he managed to make his childish superficiality the fault of women and the institution of marriage. Fucking amazing.

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Actually, TLPs posts have ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 1:35 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Actually, TLPs posts have been about sniveling misogyny as always.
Misandry doesn't exist for the same reason reverse racism doesn't really exist. its a made up fucking term the privileged classes have invented to make it seem as if they aren't really privileged. Even if we assume there are some institutions where men have a hard time because they are male, it doesn't change the fact 99% of the time it's the other way around - the woman is portrayed/expected to be stupid, submissive, sexual, all of the above, because she is a woman.

Oh and I would add that graph TLP drew (did he draw it)? Is one of the most fucking ridiculous things I have ever seen.

He should have just drew two brains and made one 3 times the size of the other and write "male" under it and "female" under the dwarf.

Earth to yuo: madmen isn't real, modern women don't expect to get married off and live happily ever after, unless they are stupid.

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No but seriously isn't it s... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 1:39 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

No but seriously isn't it scary this guy is in charge of helping mentally unstable people?

I can only imagine what he's thinking when a young female client enters his office. "She's hot..." then when she starts talking he's like thinking "blah blah blah borderline" and then it probably ends with him dismissing all of her concerns and telling her to get therapy.

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I'd like to see the profile... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 2:28 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I'd like to see the profiles with "divorced" added to the tops of the charts.

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Men see marriage as a requi... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 3:02 AM | Posted by Just Guessing: | Reply

Men see marriage as a required lock down. No more beer and pizza nights with buddies. Gotta get a 9 to 5. Bills to pay and mouths to feed. College is a high point because it's unrestricted access to whatever crazy nutjobbery a 20-something guy can think up. Marriage blows because all that fun comes to an end.

Women see it as a chance to explore the world with someone they're close to and stop worrying about that biological clock. Steamy weeks in Barbados and relaxing cruises in the Mediterranean. Heartfelt talks over homemade lasagna with the gentle sigh of baby sleep coming from the other room.

Too bad we're all so terribly wrong...

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From the comments, I take i... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 3:03 AM | Posted by huge narcissist: | Reply

From the comments, I take it you guys all know what the charts mean. Someone mind enlightening me? I'm still totally in the dark.

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I beg your fucking p... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 4:14 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Zo: | Reply

I beg your fucking pardon.

And what is up the male fear of fat, anyway.

Um, narcissism. Must reflect well upon the little prince. This is paramount.

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Read the title of the image... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 4:22 AM | Posted, in reply to huge narcissist's comment, by vali1005: | Reply

Read the title of the image: "Life's Possibilities As Seen By Men And Women"
As in, perceived number of possibilities for the future.
For Women side:
For College: many choices at the beginning. Major(Career), boyfriends, hook-ups. End of College sees a narrowed set of careers, based on the major, as well as stabler boyfriends(so, less romantic "possibilities")

I would haphazard that the narrow white area, for women, is about dating until they meet the "right one" or "the guy". After which starts "the work" to get him to propose. Cue Engagement, if they play it right.

Engagement is seen as being "99% married". Therefore, life's possibilities are greater, in number.

Marriage happens and life's possibilities are much, much greater: financial security, security to have children with someone that won't ditch, owning a house(!!!) (VERY important dream for women!), in general, do all the things that, while unattached or not engaged, a woman is much less assured of.

For Men side:
College: the width of the green area is quite suggestive on how men go through college, romantically. Anything goes.

The white area stays roughly the same, i.e. "dating" and "having fun" and "we should hang out" and "hooking up"(but no serious relationship)

Engagement: means the guy feels "ready" for this stage, as well marriage. Adam Carolla had a very insightful saying:"Women marry Mr. Right; Men marry the woman that they are dating when they feel ready to settle down". Decreased possibilities of "having fun" or "hooking up", but still possible, no ring to give the game away.

Marriage: kids, buying a house, saving for college, "having fun" with other families with kids.


Anyway, this is my interpretation and, I have to say, it's a very insightful image.

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The broader it is, the more... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 4:36 AM | Posted, in reply to huge narcissist's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

The broader it is, the more optimistic a person is about their life's prospects. The biggest suggestion it makes is that married men get into ruts while married women see things as getting better.

How that makes Alone a misogynist is beyond me, though.

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oops! An inconvenient truth... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 4:40 AM | Posted by David : | Reply

oops! An inconvenient truth (as compared to a facile sketch):

More women attend college than men, more women graduate from college than men and more women graduate sooner than men. Toss that glass out the window, Alone ... you'll hear the crash of published preconceptions hitting reality.

http://blogs.utexas.edu/ddcecentral/2010/07/14/more-women-than-men-attend-college-receive-bachelors-degree/

One more thing- kudos to anonymous 1:35am for putting it on front street. It was amusing to see the down-ratings ... you obviously touched a nerve there.

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oops! An inconvenient truth... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 4:40 AM | Posted by David : | Reply

oops! An inconvenient truth (as compared to a facile sketch):

More women attend college than men, more women graduate from college than men and more women graduate sooner than men. Toss that glass out the window, Alone ... you'll hear the crash of published preconceptions hitting reality.

http://blogs.utexas.edu/ddcecentral/2010/07/14/more-women-than-men-attend-college-receive-bachelors-degree/

One more thing- kudos to anonymous 1:35am for putting it on front street. It was amusing to see the down-ratings ... you obviously touched a nerve there.

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An interesting story about ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 5:16 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

An interesting story about age and chances, in two parts:

http://alvanista.wordpress.com/2009/09/21/lust-story-part-1/

http://alvanista.wordpress.com/2009/09/22/lust-story-part-2/

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Good point Zo - though it's... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 8:13 AM | Posted, in reply to Zo's comment, by brainchild: | Reply

Good point Zo - though it's really a fear of being associated with a fat woman and what other people will think...that's what makes it narcissism, it being all about how other people will perceive you. You can tell when it's narcissism by how the fear is expressed as contempt. Same dynamic as homophobes really, the contempt for the other is a defense against one's repressed true self and the contempt/hate of the other is part of the denial of ones own true self in favour of an idealized false self. Scratch a homophobe and you'll find a repressed Gay man every time. Men who know they aren't Gay don't need to make a big deal about it and have no fear of "the Gay". Just like guys who date people they like (well, we could leave it at "date people") as opposed to seeking out objects to make them look good (that they then feel insecure about deserving or keeping and then get jealous and
abusive...cue cycle of abuse or the boom and bust of control).

Though, to be fair, just as many women are fat phobic and indoctrinated and men and boys are being targeted by advertising these days too. Now that more women, particularly high achieving/earning ones, also want their men to be "complete packages" there's an increasing whining and resentment from men about being treated like objects combined with nostalgia for the "good old days of being men" (meaning when women couldn't vote and were easy to trap in marriage and abuse). Most of it is as narcissistic and self indulgent, whether we're talking about the women seeking men objects that reflect well on them or them men who whine on about feminism being to blame for their own lack of success (and if we're talking divorced man playing victim, often driven by a sense of entitlement to children and women as objects and not individuals or people with their own needs and agency that one builds relationships with). These men, of course, would still have been "losers" back in the "good old days". Just as the women in question would still have been "winners" and still seeking men whose status would elevate or affirm their own. Don't hate women because the system exploits you as cannon and/or factory/cubicle fodder or because you're not as successful as you feel entitled to by birth and how you imagine yourself in your fantasies.

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"The woman is portrayed/exp... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 8:29 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

"The woman is portrayed/expected to be stupid, submissive, sexual, all because she is a woman."

Funny, I don't really see that anywhere I look in the society I live in. That's meant in the sincerest way anything can be said on the internet.

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Earth to yuo: madm... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:09 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by flop: | Reply

Earth to yuo: madmen isn't real, modern women don't expect to get married off and live happily ever after, unless they are stupid

Yes, b/c we all know what a rush most men are to get into marriage. It's always those women who have "commitment issues" when talk comes up about marriage but men just can't wait to drag the women in kicking and screaming to the alter.

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The graphs illustrate how d... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:24 AM | Posted by memyself: | Reply

The graphs illustrate how differently men and women generally value the life stages of college, engagement and marriage. Men and women both value college, but men far more than women. Women value the marital relationship more and more as it progresses from initial engagement to companionship in old age, while men value that relationship most when the sex is hot and passionate and become less invested as the novelty wears off. The differences in the two charts stem from the male desire for hot sex and the female desire for intimate companionship.

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Unrelated to this post but ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:32 AM | Posted by s0kol: | Reply

Unrelated to this post but might come in handy some time("How to get the state to take away my children?"):
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index;_ylt=AkPb8SZ1jlAVQlA78Jx5wbUjzKIX;_ylv=3?qid=20100709212523AA1HkVT

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An old joke says the woman ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:50 AM | Posted by medsvstherapy: | Reply

An old joke says the woman marries the man then hoping he will change but he never does; the man marries the woman hoping she never changes but she always does.

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Ah! A Rorschach test for th... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 10:29 AM | Posted by Jack Coupal: | Reply

Ah! A Rorschach test for the 21st century.

I'm guessing the widths and trends mean something. Haven't a clue what, tho.

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I'd like to see 'Parenthood... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 11:40 AM | Posted by Sarah G: | Reply

I'd like to see 'Parenthood' added as a separate category in the diagram, separate from 'Marriage'. These days, of course, that category might create a fork in the 'track'.
:)

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"the problem isn't that one... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 1:40 PM | Posted by Butterfly McDoom: | Reply

"the problem isn't that one is right and the other is wrong; the problem is that they are different"

Right. So TLP isn't making a judgment here. Anyone who's applying the 'sexist' label - whoops, that's your judgment on display, not his.

The problem is that they are different. When you and your partner have vastly different expectations of what a date/relationship/marriage is supposed to be like, or what these experiences mean or how they're going to change your life, then you are bound to be disappointed because you're both playing from different rulebooks.

Men and women, taken as two separate but equal cultural bodies, have different expectations. We all seem to understand what those generalizations are, and on some level it is assumed that they exist (or did at one time). No one seems to be arguing "Women don't think like that." They're arguing "Women don't think like that anymore."

Romantic comedies often make the implication - strike that, it's an outright assumption - that men are immature louts. Not the leading man, of course, because our strong and mature leading lady needs a suitable partner. But all of the leading man's friends are idiots. Or better yet, the leading man is a real cad, but the leading lady can't help but fall for him anyway. So, does she want someone who's boyish, crude, rough around the edges? Or does she want a man to rise above his peers and become her knight in shining armor...even though women aren't like that anymore? Good luck with that.

For all of us who look at those generalizations and say "Even though I recognize that those are the models propagated in society/media/whatever, those things are not true of me," how sure are we, really? Are we not part of the same society/media/whatever paying into that line of bullshit?

But I shouldn't be one to talk. I'm gay. The rulebooks for homosexuals haven't been widely published yet.

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You're so far off the mark ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 2:42 PM | Posted, in reply to memyself's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

You're so far off the mark memyself. In a nutshell, more women go to college than men, more women graduate and more women graduate in less time. So ... tell me again, where does "Men and women both value college, but men far more than women" come from, except deep within the bowels of your preconceptions?

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Butterfly McDoom (what a gr... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 2:45 PM | Posted, in reply to Butterfly McDoom's comment, by David: | Reply

Butterfly McDoom (what a great moniker): "The problem is they are different." The other problem is the schemata on the left doesn't reflect reality, as measured by quantifiable data.

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The other problem is the... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 3:24 PM | Posted, in reply to David's comment, by Butterfly McDoom: | Reply

The other problem is the schemata on the left doesn't reflect reality, as measured by quantifiable data.

Do those look like graphs from scientific studies to you?

They look like they were done with MS Paint. Rudimentary. Which is perhaps the point.

It's not based on scientific data - it's based on perception. It's based on what we've been fed, been led to believe. Data - proof, if you will - is irrelevant. Politics has taught us that, if nothing else.

Dr. Laura says men should pay for dates and women should know how to please their men in order to keep them from having an affair. And though Listener A says to herself, "That advice is bullshit," she is also aware that an 'expert' is confidently dishing out said advice on national radio. So Listener A walks away with the perception that other women are taking it to heart.

If enough people can be convinced that something is so, then people act as though it is. This is not to say the truth doesn't matter - it does, very much - but it often does not have a bearing on what we perceive to be true.

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OK. Men and women see life'... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 3:30 PM | Posted by Jack Coupal: | Reply

OK. Men and women see life's possibilities differently, and that's a problem. According to Alone.

The white unlabeled areas between college and engaged mean...er, career(?). Women don't spend much time there, while men constantly try to advance careers until they reach a point when they start to burnout, display the Peter Principle, etc. Then, they're ready for family. From career, women largely move on to engagement
and marriage rapidly.

That inkblot interpretation may have been true in the 20th century, but it may not reflect the 21st.

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I think IF the majority of ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 4:04 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I think IF the majority of young women still most want to get married, it's because they've been repeatedly told their lives will be worthless if they don't, not because it actually represents some happiness... rather, an avoidance of a worse fate....

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So I'm trying to get this p... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 7:22 PM | Posted, in reply to Butterfly McDoom's comment, by David: | Reply

So I'm trying to get this point. You write: "It's not based on scientific data - it's based on perception. It's based on what we've been fed, been led to believe." If by "we" you mean men, I might agree. But if it's gender inclusive ... no, it's not a mutually held perception. People who spend a lot of money, time and energy in pursuing and achieving a goal (women in college) don't have the MS Paint (ooh snap!)perception. It's entirely different. And that's my point.

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Dr. Laura (sorry, she's on ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 7:42 PM | Posted, in reply to David's comment, by Butterfly McDoom: | Reply

Dr. Laura (sorry, she's on my mind) has a PhD in physiology and still asserts that if a husband has an affair, the wife isn't doing her job. I fail to see how a college education immunizes anyone from holding onto an "MS Paint" perspective.

Do sorority girls spend less energy, time and money in college than art majors? Do library science students not have the time or inclination to watch The Hills, Sex and the City, etc.? Are there no bioengineers or teachers with subscriptions to Cosmo or People?

Or are we talking about a person - man or woman - with a particular temperament, regardless of environment or education?

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OK, I think I get your poin... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 8:27 PM | Posted by David: | Reply

OK, I think I get your point. Given the MS Paint pastiche, whether or not more women go to college and graduate from college, the possibility of marriage looms larger in their minds than in men's minds. If I get it ... hmmm ... I still disagree with the "chart." It takes a particular perception in order to achieve these kinds of outcomes. I guess that means I'm looking at perception as a "before the fact" phenomenon. If men's perception of college played that great a role, comparatively speaking, how come their outcomes are so different?

And as far as I know, bioengineers are forbidden by their guild to subscribe to Cosmo, but they may pick up People for the introductory price.

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Oh sweet merciful JESUS, th... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:27 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

Oh sweet merciful JESUS, the comments in this post make me want to just kill, my, SELF so baaad.

I cannot even believe how UN FUCKING INTELLIGENT you people are.

1) To all the people who don't understand the graph - kill yourselves. Stop trying to think, you are not meant for it. Your brain is cut out for menial labor.
2) flop - you sir are spectacularly unintelligent, and I am addressing you directly becaues your response to my comment was just that fucking stupid. NOWHERE did I make any statement regarding men and women's proclivity to want a long term relationship. That was not even DIS FUCKING SCUSSED here. So, excuse me, but I'm having a real fucking hard time understanding why your response to my on topic comment (regarding women viewing marriage as *endless possibilitieeeeeees* as being a right fucking joke from a sexist old man)... I mean, why did YOUR response have to do with men and women and their desire for a long term partner? I mean, you do understand that wasn't even being discussed, right?
And the tool who +1'ed your comment? You also need to refund your brain to god, or at6 least wash it out with bleach to try to chemically erase the stupid.
ButterflyMcDoom - OIC! SO YOU CAN TOTALLY MITIGATE ANYTHING BIASED AND STUPID YOU FUCKING SAY IF YOU QUALIFY YOUR RANT WITH A TESTIMONIAL THAT YOU AREN'T BIASED? HOT STUFF! I'M GONNA TRY THIS:
"I think niggers are subhumans who are all on welfare. I'm not saying that's good or bad, and I'm not saying I don't like black people. I'm just saying they're different."
No, ButterflyMcDoom, it is QUITE FUCKING SEXIST to DRAW A FUCKING GRAPH with college and work as being itttty bitty specks and marriage being 10 times the size of college/work combined, and this graph is supposed to reflect women (as if there were one fucking woman's brain or something) and their concept of what offers the most possibilities (freedom, well being, etc) for them. I mean, does this guy even KNOW any women? I am absolutely astonished anyone could draw that and believe it. This is 2010. Most marriages end up in fucking divorce. Women raise children alone all the time. What woman, older than childhood (not really a woman), really believes marriage is her ticket to freedom? A good life? What woman pursued marriage in lieu of education and work? Now, I know many women would idealize such a life, but REALISTICALLY EXPECT it? Live their life with it as a goal?

I mean, i can't EVEN, ugh.

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Fail. You didn't understand... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:31 PM | Posted, in reply to memyself's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Fail. You didn't understand.

I mean this in a very sincere way: to all the people who do not, cannot understand the graphic depiction above... please stop trying to understand your world because your lack the raw ability to perceive, analyze, and produce insightful thoughts. You are meant to sit on a couch and watch TV and go to work 9-5 at a very very unchallenged repetitive job which lacks any and all intellectual ability or creative ability. You probably also speak slightly slow.

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I would also add that the e... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:46 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I would also add that the extremely narrow funnel of man's perception of his possibilities upon marriage ... it's almost a caricature when positioned next to the beaming light of women's perceived possibilities. I had been so focused on the ridiculous misogyny (that modern women view marriage as yeilding the greatest possibilities for her, much more important than work and college) that I totally ignored the subtle, less obvious anger in that depiction. It really isn't even funny, actually.

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I would also add that the e... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 9:46 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I would also add that the extremely narrow funnel of man's perception of his possibilities upon marriage ... it's almost a caricature when positioned next to the beaming light of women's perceived possibilities. I had been so focused on the ridiculous misogyny (that modern women view marriage as yeilding the greatest possibilities for her, much more important than work and college) that I totally ignored the subtle, less obvious anger in that depiction. It really isn't even funny, actually, because that kind of repressed anger against "women" is the sort of shit that makes people (men) do fucked up things.

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maby you are all wrong, im ... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 11:04 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

maby you are all wrong, im not trying to debate any of the clearly valid perspectives expressed above; i would argue that the only part of the caption that matters is the sentence under the graphs... perhaps the shapes of the graphs are meant as a joke, women see life as a wine glass, men see life as... well shit im high as a kite and i still cant figure out what that other one could be. i guess ill quit college and start working

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RAAAAAAAAAGE!Serio... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 11:42 PM | Posted by Murrow'sGhost: | Reply

RAAAAAAAAAGE!

Seriously, take a Xanax, drink some rum, or go for a run and leave the Steinem, Frye, and crew out of this. A self-loathing brand of philosophy ain't helping anybody here out.

Look, the funnel shape on the male graph for the marriage zone is pretty easy to understand in terms of the context of this blog. Marriage typically correlates with three things for men; being with somebody for an extended period of time, getting old, and having kids.

When you have kids, your possibilities typically shrink due to the fact that raising children essentially bars people from advancing their socio-economic position.

When you get old, you just don't have as much flexibility, whether it's for biological reasons, or social ones. You're "tied down" more (job, family, house, debts), and your body just isn't as capable.

And the one central to this blog, when you've been with someone for a while, you can't re-invent your identity nearly as easily. They know you just as much as you know you. You can't convince them you're John Hannibal Matrix Wayne Rambo Eastwood Draper...because they know you're just an accountant who is a little chubby and kinda dorky. They still like you because you are a decent person, but for some reason that ain't enough. Wonder why?

Women, in general, don't seem to care for whatever reason about these issues. Men, in general, seem to be absolutely mortified. Why? Dunno...I'm not a shrink. Or a media exec.

The point of the graphs, I think, is that this difference exists, and that it cause a lot of societal friction. The cause...well, that's probably a lot more complicated than an MS Paint graph can point out...but hey, that's sure as heck not stopping a few loud, obnoxious people from using this post to shout about about their personal crusades and demean/use others in their little statements of "LOOK AT ME! I AM THIS!"

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Oh yeah, my wall-o-text was... (Below threshold)

August 20, 2010 11:45 PM | Posted by Murrow'sGhost: | Reply

Oh yeah, my wall-o-text was for Anon 9:27-9:46. Sorry if there's a misunderstanding person up above.

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The guy who said this was a... (Below threshold)

August 21, 2010 12:25 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

The guy who said this was a Rorschach test was completely right. Oh, God, you people are idiots.

Look at marriage: women see marriage as opening up a world of possibilities. Men see it as closing off possibilities.

Look at college: both men and women see it as opening up a world of possibilities, but men see more possibilities than women do.

As college ends, both see the possibilities decrease, but men then rebound to an infinity of choices. Women don't see it like that.

Finally, they get engaged. A woman sees possibilities, a man sees one single possibility.

Nowhere does Alone say either is right or happier. He's merely pointing out two different views of the future, and then commenting that the disparity between those worldviews are what causes trouble in marriages. I know this is what he means because every single post he's written about men and women is about this disparity in worldviews. Take the post-college male, whose frequently described as ambivalent, a dreamer, who thinks he's going to know kung fu if the situation arose. That self-delusion is why his possibilities graph is so huge.

I can't understand the comments here. Do you think men and women don't see the future differently? Or do you get some PC reflex that anytime something is bigger for men it must be sexism?

Does everyone commenting on this blog have Aspergers?

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What happened to having a s... (Below threshold)

August 21, 2010 1:27 AM | Posted by Kill The Comic!: | Reply

What happened to having a sense of humor? Why take it so seriously?

And if you're going to take it seriously, remember to look at the first caption:

"time to change your perspective to include getting more glasses"

Lolz. Quite a pun. But also, "more glasses" -- e.g., the picture he put up (half empty/half full) and then the picture of the diagram on the "post" -- the problem isn't necessarily the picture, but the fact we can reduce our perspectives to one view (e.g., glass is EITHER half empty or half full).

And we assume that picture is only a 2D one. But if it is 3D then that means that we are only viewing it from one perspective and not seeing it for everything it is (like the paradoxical staircase).

And the half empty/half full stuff only shows the glass from a 2d picture as well. What if I view the glass from an overhead vantage point?

But I digress, this seems to be a joke above all.

(PS Speaking of jokes, did any of you notice the chart for women kind of looks like a martini glass?)

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Just because women imagined... (Below threshold)

August 21, 2010 2:50 AM | Posted by gah: | Reply

Just because women imagined themselves married, don't go assuming they imagined it would make their lives better.

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Nice pic link. I get it now... (Below threshold)

August 21, 2010 3:39 AM | Posted, in reply to Kill The Comic!'s comment, by David: | Reply

Nice pic link. I get it now. It's about triangles and parallelograms.

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I don't think I'm buying th... (Below threshold)

August 21, 2010 12:25 PM | Posted by wisegirl: | Reply

I don't think I'm buying this one. If men have such a pessimistic outlook toward marriage, why are so many gay men fighting for the right to do so.

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DO you even know what a ror... (Below threshold)

August 22, 2010 1:01 AM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

DO you even know what a rorschach test is, you fool? This is not a rorschach test. It is a simple graph. It is a SIMPLE GRAPH.

Color = stage of life; prospective option in life (e.g. work, college, marriage)

Width = perception of the person as to how many possibilities (defined loosely as potential for well being) each color yeilds for them.

If you could not get this after 5 seconds of looking at it, I state again: give up trying to understand anything beyond the superficial. You have zero creative thinking ability. You can't even understand a simple graph.

This is NOT a rorschach for the simple reason that a rorschach has no predefined definition; it may have subliminal imagry (e.g. fang-like objects, phallic objects) but it does NOT have a clear cut logically defined key to represent the graphic images. When images correlate to a logically defined meaning, this "image" is a SYMBOL, which is part of a GRAPH.

A rorschach has NO symbols, it is not logically absolute, it is by definition open to interpretation.

This graph above is entirely defined. Women view marriage as being endless possibilities (the funnel never tapers), whereas men are flying high and view the world as being quite full of possibilities until they approach marriage.

There are so many fucking sexist implications within this depiction it would take at least an hour to identify them all.

1) the idea that women view college as a small part of her life, a stepping stone to marriage, is straight out of 1950s and so completely incomparable to the reality for today's woman. I have to assume TLP is 57 years old. I am a woman, I work with so many women, NO woman thinks this way. Some women do when they are young, most women realize quickly it's not true at all and today if you want freedom you better get an education and a good job and not hold out for a husband who will take care of you, oh and by the way, most married couples have to hold full time jobs, the stay at home mother only exists in low class white trash families who no one would aspire to be... and oh by the way many marriages end in divorce.

2) The idea that a man's life is perceive dby him to "end" after marriage almost seems like a praying-mantis relationship where the woman is prospering at the expense of the man's vitality. This is a totally fabricated idea entirely manufactured by the author, who happens to be TLP. Sure it is a stereotype that men dread marriage and it is a stereotype that men's lives suck after marriage, but the sexist part lies in the fact that TLP fails to recognize this perception is both stereotypical (i.e. not entirely real), AND it has nothing to do with the woman.

3) Related to #2, the reason men's lives suck ass after marriage is because men are old and boring after marriage, they're in their mid 30s which is just a few years from 40 and before you know it you're old and fat with a functional alcohol abuse disorder. Also, women's lives start to suck at this time as well, and probably suck worse than the man's life because she has to clean a house full of kids while working while taking care of a fat useless husband who has taken on the role of an additional child to her brood. SHe's well past her prime sexually and is stuck in this life.

It is more than evident TLP doesn't get this (that things arent' roses after marriage for women, that men's lives sucking after marriage has very little to do with being "pinned down" and everything to do with being old and fat)... if he understood it he wouldn't have drawn that stupid graph with the ever expansive funnel on the woman's side ("haha I am a lazy woman who has bagged me a man now I can grow fat and self indulgent as I am set for life")... in fact, if he understood this at all he wouldn't have made the graph PERIOD. It's clear men's hatred of being married is an oblivious autistic/narcissistic inability to realize his unhappiness ha smore to do with his own failings (mainly being old and fat and boring and lethargic).

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to one-too-many anonymousus... (Below threshold)

August 22, 2010 10:14 AM | Posted by Jack Coupal: | Reply

to one-too-many anonymoususes:

a warm bath followed by a cup of rum will do wonders for you.

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Except that this is pretty ... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 4:05 AM | Posted by Ragnar: | Reply

Except that this is pretty much following the entire pop-culture line I've been fed all my life.

It doesn't fit with my personal experience at all, which is much messier (in the sense of drastic interindividual variations). Of course, my views are worthless. N=1. Maybe I've absorbed some other media narrative, or got exposed from walking past the Women's Studies Department too many times.

It just seems too canned to be a straightforward TLP post.

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I feel like I know a lot mo... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 4:19 AM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I feel like I know a lot more guys who want to settle down than women...

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There is a study which reve... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 8:17 AM | Posted by wisegirl: | Reply

There is a study which revealed married men are happier than single men yet married women are slightlhy more depressed than single women. If this chart is correct it may explain this descrepency. Women are disappointed that marriage isn't a fairytale and men are pleasantly suprised how comfortable they are in marriage.

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wisegirl, When yo... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 11:56 AM | Posted by Jack Coupal: | Reply

wisegirl,

When you say, women are disappointed that marriage isn't a fairytale, it reminds me of another saying:

Men get married because they're tired.
Women get married because they're curious.
Both become disappointed.

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This is similar to the idea... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 11:58 AM | Posted by Foobs: | Reply

This is similar to the idea that traditional female literature is about getting a family and a house and traditional male literature is about escaping those things.

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I may have needed a bath/ru... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 2:16 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

I may have needed a bath/rum when I wrote these things but the bottom line is ... this whole post is ridiculous. This is not 1950. Women do NOT depend on marriage any longer, although I would agree many women idolize marriage for social and biological reasons.

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Wow. Anonymous who wrote t... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 3:05 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

Wow. Anonymous who wrote the post with three points about how the graph is sexist, you've officially broken the irony meter. You gave a near-perfect explanation of what the graph meant, and why it was not a rorschach test. You then proceeded to treat the graph exactly like a rorschach test, reading all types of stuff into the graph that simply isn't there.

You said: Width = perception of the person as to how many possibilities, but you seem to have completely forgotten this by the time you get around to your rant (I guess so you would be able to argue with whatever you wanted to argue with, rather than what he was actually saying).

1) The idea that women view college as a small part of her life, a stepping stone to marriage... How does that follow from women not perceiving as many possibilities during college as men? A more reasonable interpretation: a woman in college majors in accounting believing she will become an accountant. A man in college majors in accounting to pass the time while he waits to become a world famous rapper / start-up billionaire / pulitzer prize winning novelist (ie the narcissism TLP writes about in every post).

2) The idea that a man's life is perceive dby him to "end" after marriage... It isn't that his life is perceived to end, or that his life necessarily sucks ass after marriage, but that marriage forces him to acknowledge the unreality of his far-flung ideas about his future. It becomes clear to him that he is going to be "just an accountant" until he dies, and the identity he has constructed will never be recognized by the world.

The woman, on the other hand, has already accepted her identity as a regular person, and is able to find new possibilities after marriage (perhaps motherhood? I am not quite clear on why the funnel expands so dramatically).

I don't know about the post-marriage part, but the college section seems pretty accurate to me. The women I knew in college were very serious and goal oriented about their education. The dudes I knew acted like it was just another hoop to jump through. I was a slacker myself though, so maybe its just the company I kept...

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as a woman, I feel on the o... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 3:22 PM | Posted, in reply to Anonymous's comment, by Anonymous: | Reply

as a woman, I feel on the one hand like... why would marriage stop me from doing anything? I mean, really? Besides having sexual relationships with new people? I still have a career, friends, etc. etc. etc., but I am additionally married. Also, makes it easier to do a few key things than being single -- purchasing property, raising children.

But, that is the flip side. if you purchase property and have children, you realistically do not have time to do everything else you want to do, because you need to be a mother, and a wife, and even maintaining a home is difficult, cleaning, repairing, mowing the lawn, etc. etc., on top of working full time....

OR, perhaps this is a simple borderline v.s. narcissist way of viewing things!

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I'm coming from a perspecti... (Below threshold)

August 23, 2010 5:02 PM | Posted by anonymous: | Reply

I'm coming from a perspective that builds on Anon 8/23 3:05, that, if this is based on a prospective study of college students - and what psychology research isn't, to its detriment? - that this MS-paint-wine-glass-stem-rorschach is both as it should be and ultimately helpful, to both sexes.

Helpful in that it could be used in premarital counseling to weed out the unrealistic & the pathologicals. Anyone on the cusp of marriage, or worse, procreating, who still sees themselves or their partner in these diagrams could be in for a whole lot of pain. So if he's plowing snow & driving schoolbuses part time & living with his parents, to pay for her 2.5 carat engagement ring, big old warning bells should be going off. Similarly, if he, through his porn use &/or the fact that he hasn't actually gotten divorced from his 1st, 2nd or 3rd wife is showing his continued allegiance to the "men's" perspective, but you dear, are his "soul mate" & thus different, well, get ready for a little Mel Gibson treatment once the baby arrives.

On the other hand, for young people not on the cusp of of marriage, I disagree with the author - I think the diagrams are different because they are as they should be. The expansive expectations of the young men in their careers and for young women in their marriages are going to protect them from proverbially casting their pearls before the swine, and the theoretical narrowing of the stems which women show at college age and men envision for the future show the development of responsibility and commitment. Since (as Anon 8/23 3:05 points out) college-age women are already showing an understanding of responsibility and commitment we aren't so worried about them (except for the pathologicals), and since the young men seem aware that eventually whatever it is that happens in life is going to happen for them, too, we can be equally optimistic.

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It's a Sex Funnel... (Below threshold)

August 24, 2010 2:18 PM | Posted by Anonymous: | Reply

It's a Sex Funnel

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